In one para : what's wrong with our modern diet.

[bssunilreddy]

Microplastics hinder plant photosynthesis, study finds, threatening millions with starvation

Researchers say problem could increase number of people at risk of starvation by 400m in next two decades

www.theguardian.com

God damn...!!!

This is what I was previously saying in this thread (Every drop of butter we consume reduces our lifespan where doctors, researchers & scientists are doubting that rising cancer cases since last 10 years irrespective of continents) about traces of micro plastics found in the guts of whales of pacific ocean, polar bears of Arctic Ocean and tribes of Papua New Guinea.
This article I read in National Geographic Channel.
These micro plastics are everywhere now and I think that for us humans to pollute all the world's oceans with micro plastics it just took 60 years.
As a result of global warning amid rising temperatures during Summers, Winters & Monsoon season. NOAA & NASA scientists were saying that after running climate models in super computers it's showing that tornadoes & typhoons will become natural phenomenon in Monsoons in Asia & Cyclones & Water Sprouts will become natural phenomenon in Americas while wearing heat waves will become the norm for Europeans. Since 4-5 years residents from French Riviera and Spain were running for the beaches during their summers. So it is also assumed that Pole Reversal might happen within the next 30 years.
Then will a Small Ice Age will start.
I regularly visit NOAA, NASA & NORAD sites where they display the predictions on a global scale.

 

[Ssreek]

This is what I was previously saying about traces of micro plastics found in the guts of whales of pacific ocean, polar bears of Arctic Ocean and tribes of Papua New Guinea.

I am sure we can find a lot of microplastics these days in humans as well.

 

[PoBoy]

Have a look at this : How Japan’s School Lunch Program Fights Obesity

Countries spend so much on other things ...

 

[TEUser2K1]

@PoBoy interestingly, JP also have least population growth in the world. Few decades later, considerable number of them will fade away.

 

[sparsh19]

Our modern Indian diet has become too focused on carbs like rice, roti, and processed snacks, while seriously lacking in protein, fiber, and other essential nutrients. We eat a lot of oily, fried, and masala-heavy food, but forget to include enough dal, paneer, eggs, or other protein sources in our daily meals. Junk food, sweets, and soft drinks have become regular, even in small towns, and people think eating out or ordering online is easier than cooking at home.

 

[ssslayer]

Our modern Indian diet has become too focused on carbs like rice, roti, and processed snacks, while seriously lacking in protein, fiber, and other essential nutrients. We eat a lot of oily, fried, and masala-heavy food, but forget to include enough dal, paneer, eggs, or other protein sources in our daily meals. Junk food, sweets, and soft drinks have become regular, even in small towns, and people think eating out or ordering online is easier than cooking at home.

1. Indian diet (and most of the diets around equator) have always been carb heavy. Vegetables and Tubers don't run away and you only need enough intelligence to identify and dig. So first of all, Indians don't need to demonize the carbs. Proteins/carnivore diet is fashionable among goras and because the social media is swayed by gora influencers understandably everyone around the globe tries to copy the same.

2. Dal is not really a "protein diet", it is carbohydrates heavy food with higher protein content compared to cereals. Same way for paneer, it is a fat heavy and carb heavy diet and with higher proteins than cereals. Please check the nutrient profile before getting into arguments on this. But in any case, this point is absolutely immaterial and irrelevant. Don't be influenced by a few gora people (for some curious reasons, it is mostly the steroid injecting gora right-wing fitness influencers who look down upon vegetarians their physique and their diets).

3. Eggs and meat in Indian diet? I heard/read that some state-run schools where meal is provided at school and did away with eggs because they didn't want to hurt religious sentiments. Now what can you do with such mentality of the govt (which in turn shows the mentality of the public which is voting and supporting such policies)

4. The bolded part is where the real issue lies. Till 1970s the only processed junk food was chips and cold drinks and price wise they were well outside the reach of average Indian's income. 1990s ushered in an era of open markets, with junk food factories setting up their shops with cheap products and advertising galore - but Indian income levels had yet not risen enough, and I recollect that it was a "luxury" spent those days.
Now someone can say Indians have always had home-made sweets and savories which is practically hyperpalatable junk food (sugar/salt, maida and fats only) - but he is mistaken in assuming that Indians always consumed these snacks throughout the day. Nope, these were made (or brought from outside halwai) only on special occasions and consumed in little quantities

 

[Anuj333]

1. Indian diet (and most of the diets around equator) have always been carb heavy. Vegetables and Tubers don't run away and you only need enough intelligence to identify and dig. So first of all, Indians don't need to demonize the carbs. Proteins/carnivore diet is fashionable among goras and because the social media is swayed by gora influencers understandably everyone around the globe tries to copy the same.

2. Dal is not really a "protein diet", it is carbohydrates heavy food with higher protein content compared to cereals. Same way for paneer, it is a fat heavy and carb heavy diet and with higher proteins than cereals. Please check the nutrient profile before getting into arguments on this. But in any case, this point is absolutely immaterial and irrelevant. Don't be influenced by a few gora people (for some curious reasons, it is mostly the steroid injecting gora right-wing fitness influencers who look down upon vegetarians their physique and their diets).

3. Eggs and meat in Indian diet? I heard/read that some state-run schools where meal is provided at school and did away with eggs because they didn't want to hurt religious sentiments. Now what can you do with such mentality of the govt (which in turn shows the mentality of the public which is voting and supporting such policies)

4. The bolded part is where the real issue lies. Till 1970s the only processed junk food was chips and cold drinks and price wise they were well outside the reach of average Indian's income. 1990s ushered in an era of open markets, with junk food factories setting up their shops with cheap products and advertising galore - but Indian income levels had yet not risen enough, and I recollect that it was a "luxury" spent those days.
Now someone can say Indians have always had home-made sweets and savories which is practically hyperpalatable junk food (sugar/salt, maida and fats only) - but he is mistaken in assuming that Indians always consumed these snacks throughout the day. Nope, these were made (or brought from outside halwai) only on special occasions and consumed in little quantities

what do you suggest in terms of protein rich foods for people who don't even eat eggs?

 

[TEUser2K1]

what do you suggest in terms of protein rich foods for people who don't even eat eggs?

Chickpeas, soya, chia seeds, etc. may help.
Alternatively, if living near tropic regions, Egg fruit aka scientifically 'Pouteria Campechiana' which can be seen in Konkan coast in India.

 

[Kloud]

Chickpeas, soya, chia seeds, etc. may help.
Alternatively, if living near tropic regions, Egg fruit aka scientifically 'Pouteria Campechiana' which can be seen in Konkan coast in India.

Simple bottom line. Getting ample protein through vegan sources means consuming mammoth amounts of calories (in terms of carbs and fats) and that will keep anyone fat.

 

[arup]

what do you suggest in terms of protein rich foods for people who don't even eat eggs?

definitely soya chunks

 

[TEUser2K1]

Moong Dal soaked / sprout is also very good for health.

 

[altair21]

Simple bottom line. Getting ample protein through vegan sources means consuming mammoth amounts of calories (in terms of carbs and fats) and that will keep anyone fat.

not really, unless you are into body building, 70-80g (on higher end) protein should be more than enough for 99% of people out there, which can be had by consuming soya chunks (50g protein in 100g roughly), paneer (15-20g protein/100g), whey or even sprouts and stuff like chickpeas. its just a matter of self-discipline.

for most people: I would recommend incorporating soya chunks in their diet, they are the densest source of protein available for us and yes there are some health concerns about them, if you regulate your diet with other sources of protein, it wont affect you as much.

I try to have soya/paneer at least 3 times a week

 

[ssslayer]

Simple bottom line. Getting ample protein through vegan sources means consuming mammoth amounts of calories (in terms of carbs and fats) and that will keep anyone fat.

Directionally right, but not entirely correct. Scroll to the bottom of my post.
Let's first address this protein fixation - consider a typical male human being height 170 cm - weight 65 kg having 15% body fat. Most likely a person with higher weight than this will carry excess fat, this doesn't change the protein calculations.

How much protein is required? Proteins can be used as fuel for cells, or can be used to repair the cells, or to build something new (e.g. child's or teenage growth).

For an adult, who has stopped his growth spurt, and the only other growth he can undergo is a measly 2-5 kg of muscles due to weight training or 10-20 kg muscles due to exogenous anabolic hormones. Going back a few lines, a teenage undergrowing growth spurt would require more protein or an adult whose only growth happens at waistline?

For an adult what is the lower limit? Easy to determine, eliminate protein from diet, and observe & record the nitrogen loss happening from the body. All nitrogen loss is result of cellular breakdown - and this is the amount of protein necessary to maintain the body healthily. You can refer more details here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/
The net outcome is that 0.6 g of protein per kg per day is average adult requirement for sustaining normal life. Since humans beings have some variability, and it is always safe to adhere to upper limit rather than lower, this number is 0.75 g of protein per kg per day. The recommended (safe to publish and circulate among lesser educated) figure (RDA) is even higher at 0.85 g/kg/day.

What about upper limit? The fastest growing organism is the one present inside the womb. The next fastest growth is when it is outside and is infant. 1.73 g/kg/day is the average recommendation around 3-6 month's period based on observation of mother's lactation and growing infant's diet.

Then there are complications caused by biological factor and digestibility, summary: milk, eggs, non-veg sources are more efficient than veg sources. You may even need to eat double qty veg protein to be similar to eggs. Let's take an average of 70% as the vegetarian (in)efficiency.

So now we are coming to the point that 0.85/.7 = 1.21 g of veg protein per kg per day.
My average guy is 65 kg, hence his required intake = 79 grams
If we do the same calculation for lower limit 0.6/0.7 = 0.86 g of veg proteins per kg per day X 65 kg = 56 grams

Anyone telling you anything else is just trying to sell protein powder to you without understanding the experimentational science that has led us to these figures.

Now coming to vegetarian diet. One of the poorest wholemeal protein sources is rice. Raw rice is 7% proteins (and 3.65 kcal/g). I am using raw items here because nutritional profile is easily comparable for raw. Cooking hydrates the food, and different items absorb different amount of water. However, water doesn't change the protein or calorie calculations because it has neither.

In order to meet the 79 grams recommendation, I will have to eat 79/.07 = 1.1 kg of (raw) rice per day. This will provide me with 4116 kcal, enough to make me fat very fast.
In order to meet the 56 grams minimum requirement, I will need to eat 56/.07 = 796 g of (raw) rice per day. This provides me with 2905 kcal, still on slightly higher side but if I am physically active this could easily be maintenance calories.

What about richer source of protein? Say pulses / legumes. Mung/masoor/toor/urad - typical (raw) dals in Indian household have around 20-25% protein (and 3.5 kcal/g). Let's run the same calculations once again:

In order to meet the 79 grams recommendation, I will have to eat 79/.2 = 395 g of (raw) legumes per day. This will provide me with 1381 kcal, barely sufficient to let me live.
In order to meet the 56 grams minimum requirement, I will need to eat 56/.2 = 279 g of (raw) legumes per day. This provides me with 975 kcal, I will surely die.

What this suggests is that if I need to satisfy my calorific requirement of 2500 kcal/day, I will need to consume around 714 g of raw legumes, which also ends up providing me with 143 g of proteins!

The wholemeal vegetarian truth lies somewhere between these two extremes (we anyway have a mix of rice and dal everywhere across the world) - thus I am confident in stating that a person will have neither protein deficiency, nor have excess calorie consumption.

*phew* Its been a long post, I had zero intention and focus to do this, but it needs to be done. There are so many misconceptions being floated by social media idiots/influencers and steroid junkies at the gyms that they have changed the entire narrative about nutrition just to peddle their stuff.

But I am certain that the next page of this thread will again have some juvenile questions and outlandish claims fueled by confusion caused by social media and gym bro'hood.

 

[TEUser2K1]

yes there are some health concerns about them

Concerns about phyto estrogenic issues is what keeps some people away from soya chunks.

 

[kiran6680]

Directionally right, but not entirely correct. Scroll to the bottom of my post.

Let's first address this protein fixation - consider a typical male human being height 170 cm - weight 65 kg having 15% body fat. Most likely a person with higher weight than this will carry excess fat, this doesn't change the protein calculations.

How much protein is required? Proteins can be used as fuel for cells, or can be used to repair the cells, or to build something new (e.g. child's or teenage growth).

For an adult, who has stopped his growth spurt, and the only other growth he can undergo is a measly 2-5 kg of muscles due to weight training or 10-20 kg muscles due to exogenous anabolic hormones. Going back a few lines, a teenage undergrowing growth spurt would require more protein or an adult whose only growth happens at waistline?

For an adult what is the lower limit? Easy to determine, eliminate protein from diet, and observe & record the nitrogen loss happening from the body. All nitrogen loss is result of cellular breakdown - and this is the amount of protein necessary to maintain the body healthily. You can refer more details here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/
The net outcome is that 0.6 g of protein per kg per day is average adult requirement for sustaining normal life. Since humans beings have some variability, and it is always safe to adhere to upper limit rather than lower, this number is 0.75 g of protein per kg per day. The recommended (safe to publish and circulate among lesser educated) figure (RDA) is even higher at 0.85 g/kg/day.

What about upper limit? The fastest growing organism is the one present inside the womb. The next fastest growth is when it is outside and is infant. 1.73 g/kg/day is the average recommendation around 3-6 month's period based on observation of mother's lactation and growing infant's diet.

Then there are complications caused by biological factor and digestibility, summary: milk, eggs, non-veg sources are more efficient than veg sources. You may even need to eat double qty veg protein to be similar to eggs. Let's take an average of 70% as the vegetarian (in)efficiency.

So now we are coming to the point that 0.85/.7 = 1.21 g of veg protein per kg per day.
My average guy is 65 kg, hence his required intake = 79 grams
If we do the same calculation for lower limit 0.6/0.7 = 0.86 g of veg proteins per kg per day X 65 kg = 56 grams

Anyone telling you anything else is just trying to sell protein powder to you without understanding the experimentational science that has led us to these figures.

Now coming to vegetarian diet. One of the poorest wholemeal protein sources is rice. Raw rice is 7% proteins (and 3.65 kcal/g). I am using raw items here because nutritional profile is easily comparable for raw. Cooking hydrates the food, and different items absorb different amount of water. However, water doesn't change the protein or calorie calculations because it has neither.

In order to meet the 79 grams recommendation, I will have to eat 79/.07 = 1.1 kg of (raw) rice per day. This will provide me with 4116 kcal, enough to make me fat very fast.
In order to meet the 56 grams minimum requirement, I will need to eat 56/.07 = 796 g of (raw) rice per day. This provides me with 2905 kcal, still on slightly higher side but if I am physically active this could easily be maintenance calories.

What about richer source of protein? Say pulses / legumes. Mung/masoor/toor/urad - typical (raw) dals in Indian household have around 20-25% protein (and 3.5 kcal/g). Let's run the same calculations once again:

In order to meet the 79 grams recommendation, I will have to eat 79/.2 = 395 g of (raw) legumes per day. This will provide me with 1381 kcal, barely sufficient to let me live.
In order to meet the 56 grams minimum requirement, I will need to eat 56/.2 = 279 g of (raw) legumes per day. This provides me with 975 kcal, I will surely die.

What this suggests is that if I need to satisfy my calorific requirement of 2500 kcal/day, I will need to consume around 714 g of raw legumes, which also ends up providing me with 143 g of proteins!

The wholemeal vegetarian truth lies somewhere between these two extremes (we anyway have a mix of rice and dal everywhere across the world) - thus I am confident in stating that a person will have neither protein deficiency, nor have excess calorie consumption.

*phew* Its been a long post, I had zero intention and focus to do this, but it needs to be done. There are so many misconceptions being floated by social media idiots/influencers and steroid junkies at the gyms that they have changed the entire narrative about nutrition just to peddle their stuff.

But I am certain that the next page of this thread will again have some juvenile questions and outlandish claims fueled by confusion caused by social media and gym bro'hood.

With careful regulation, vegetarian diet is fine. But the typical vegetarian diet is not.

Just to go with your assumptions here, it would need 40% legumes and 60% rice to get 2500 kcal. To get to this level, I am famous in my whole family, neighbourhood and work colleagues about preferring "extremely" thick dal which is still 55% water, most of it inside the grains. Legumes twice a day is unheard of anywhere in my acquaintances, so make that only one serving. Typical meal is made of watery dal with 95% water and lots of masala making it difficult to use a lot of dal. Typical rice-dal combination if we consider dry rice-dal ratio is 10% dal and 90% rice. Legumes, including rajma/chola/chana/lobia is also one of the few whole grain stuff in common usage , so include fibre also in the solid components of dal/legume preparation.

Secondly, this doesn't include the low protein, high carb parts of the diet that is fruits, vegetables, junk food, tea etc. You could reduce 20% calorie quota for them. Stopping the former 2 is not recommended, and the latter 2 is impractical.

Thirdly,these discussions typically come up when someone is already overweight. So their diet is probably already more skewed against protein. Either their limited remaining quota needs to be extra protein rich, or it should be protein-fat combination rather than protein-carb combination because fat quota can be cut more easily from other cooking to make up for this. The protein-fat combination is more likely found in meat/eggs/cheese/paneer. These may not be high protein, per se, but a rare respite from the carb overload.

Fourthly, 2500 kcal is a bit much for typical male Indian, that's why I'm going by your higher side calculations rather than the lower ones.

Fifthly, getting to the higher side 141 g of protein purely from legumes might get us into deficiency of the methionine etc. amino acids depending on the choice of legumes so that is again problematic, though even a slight addition of rice/wheat etc. fixes this problem so this is the last.