Is India a big market a big lie?

[blr_p]

You should first understand that India is not exactly a mature democracy so any govt formed by winning elections here is not automatically supposed to be right/worth listening to all the time. Are you even aware that difference in bjp & opposition vote share in last LS election was 37.36% while nda combined vote share was around 45% of the total votes polled so not even 50% of the population who voted(which itself was around 60% of the total population) chose bjp/nda so how can you even think that it can do no wrong/always think of people beyond its core base of 20-30% of the population?

The margins for state elections can be even lower. This argument you make is for proportional representation. That is not workable at the people level.

We have a first-past-the-post system here.

I'm speaking from a power pov. I don't get into right and wrong. If they say they want to do this or that then the odds that it will happen are good.

Right or wrong is a complex question. I'm working at the yes or no level. There can be quite a degree of uncertainty even with that.

I've spent my career in this field - clinical trials and the like. Go ahead and believe whatever you want from the media you consume and the "experts" on the TV.
Too tired of the stupidity of the responses to continue this conversation.

Where are your sources?

One of the most senseless arguments I ever came across.
Good for you, but not for me.

You just don't have a counter. Come back when you do.

Takes no brains to diss and disagree. Making points, defendable ones as I have consistently through this thread shows the difference.

 

[JMP]

Liberalism is a subset of democracy, it cannot exist outside of it.

You are making my point for me. Liberal democracy is one type of democracy, there are many others.

Also, even by the narrow definition of people's rule, any nation electing govt with less than around 90% of the population of the nation voting & electing it fails on that standard. If a govt is elected on the basis of 60% of the population voting out of which it got 45% votes then it certainly isn't "people's rule" where more than 50% of the population didn't choose that govt unless you are saying the portion of the population who did choose the govt is superior & their choice outweigh rest of the population.

A country is called a democracy if each citizen has an equal right to vote. Whether the citizen chooses to exercise that right or not is upto them.
On what basis are you stating 90% of the population ? No country can match that criteria because a significant percentage of the population are children who are not eligible for voting.

If a govt is elected on the basis of 60% of the population voting out of which it got 45% votes then it certainly isn't "people's rule" where more than 50% of the population didn't choose

There is a difference between did not and could not.

unless you are saying the portion of the population who did choose the govt is superior & their choice outweigh rest of the population.

I made no such claim.

 

[anmolkumar10]

You just don't have a counter. Come back when you do.

I just don't want to engage in non sense discussion. Not my forte.

 

[blr_p]

Following orders strictly is for military & even there there are certain exceptional circumstances where a person can refuse an order. We are talking about civilian govt here, ppl have the option to disagree & resign instead of blindly following orders.

Sure they do. But I've limited myself here in the interest of understanding them. Regardless of whether I agree, with time positions become clear. Rather than rejecting at the outset which is what the opposition cares about. These are long games. People want two-minute Maggi solution. They will not track things. How things develop over time. More info comes out.

Only majority rule/winning elections is not democracy, if 2 wolves & a sheep decide to vote on whether to eat the sheep then it is not democracy but rather winning by the number/majority rule. Trump mange to did something which even USSR at its height of power couldn't do, causing invasion of Capitol Hill. Courts there are not afraid to file cases against him unlike here where filing case against any major politicians takes years to even start the serious arguments in hearings. In US even Trump can get arrested & tried & declared guilty but here chances of something similar happening is practically nil.

We are a republic so there is always the rule of law. But democracy puts a set of people in power to take decisions.

What are you talking about? Biggest lie being peddled for years aka "poverty removal" has been in action for decades & still work somewhat & used by every party in some way even today. You keep saying "China blunders" but look at reality, China can see eye to eye with US which India won't be able to do even in next 50 years.

They cannot and have failed to do so even with India. Everything about them is a facade and illusion.

How a five foot midget can fool those taller into thinking they are bigger is their trick.

If someone is free to oppose as their citizen's right then no govt of the day should have any issue with it. Reducing the noise indeed make signal go up but identifying which is signal & which is noise is also important.

You are always free to do that but you are not adding to the conversation in a way I find useful. I find everyone expects something complex to conclude in like a day or two. This is not realistic. They will form opinions and slam the govt. This will continue with the next topic and so on for years Nothing is learnt. If you are in favour of the govt then you are some evil person. Where did this thinking come from? it means every govt is evil which is absurd. When the labels come out as quick you just know they are clueless.

Again that bolded bit takes time. Until it becomes clear I have a default position to follow. A safe one. Until more information comes out. When that happens I usually bump a thread. There is zero recognition. They all moved on. They did not even care. So why take them seriously at the outset? I do not.

I just don't want to engage in non sense discussion. Not my forte.

Why does your post count only show 5 messages since you joined? Clearly you've made more posts.

Is this some board bug? I've seen this with some other people as well.

 

[guest_999]

On what basis are you stating 90% of the population ? No country can match that criteria because a significant percentage of the population are children who are not eligible for voting.

I should have clarified, 90% of the eligible voting population.

We are a republic so there is always the rule of law. But democracy puts a set of people in power to take decisions.

India ranks quite low in rule of law indexes. Theory & practical are two different things. Having rule of law in books is one thing, having it followed in real life is another. India has the former but not the latter.

If you are in favour of the govt then you are some evil person. Where did this thinking come from? it means every govt is evil which is absurd. When the labels come out as quick you just know they are clueless.

You didn't get my point which was that there is no govt/leader/human ever existed/will exist that can do no wrong. An aware citizen's job is to find out what that wrong thing was. Maybe you can say that as per you Congress govt did 40 things right & 60 things wrong while bjp govt did 70 things right & 30 things wrong but it must never be that congress did 99 things right or bjp did 99 things right.

 

[blr_p]

Since our resident expert has bailed without posting any sources that validate his claims on covaxin I took the liberty of searching my regular news channel on covaxin. I seem to remember it being good at dealing with Delta which came out here.

This is from Jul 03 2021

Dr Bagai has been a regular on the channel about the topic. He was defending Covishield here since getting approvals abroad was taking time just because it was being made in India by countries that had no vaccine companies to speak of.

Phase 3 trials had just completed for covaxin yet people kept rejecting the data. Who are these people? one useful comment

It is the commercial politics by WHO and the west . India has to fight for its rights , and help other nations too with Indian vaccines.

Another from the video

21 people died in Norway after taking Pfizer but nobody talks about it. J&J's vaccine ineffective with just one dose. etc.

of course there's a hypocrisy as well as vaccine politics which takes place in the wider arena. Where a developing country is trying to break the shackles from a snake charmer and enter the rich man's countries and trying to prove the point. This is bound to happen and the only thing which can take care of is the quality which is made in india and we need to be proud of this fact. That covaxin today in spite of people trolling on twitter asking various questions. We have still been able to prove at best 93 or at worst 63 to 70 percent efficacy

That is from 12 Nov 21

Isn't that good enough? RCT in a respected journal.

I don't find any videos on the subject after that. Nothing in the last one and a half years?

Now if covaxin was as bad as he claims there would be rejections, WHO would put out a 'global' warning and it would be a hot topic. Nothing. So his arguments are two years old when the controversy was at its height but invalid today

If you were a traveller back then, covishield would be better just because at the time it was approved by more countries. Otherwise, you could not fly. This changed towards the end of 2021 when covaxin was approved in the US & UK. And that was the end of the story

Done and dusted topic by 2021 end. Any layperson knows this.



Why was there a controversy in the first place? turn the clock back a few months

From Mar 5 2021

There you go. The usual suspects. All their affiliated channels were making hay creating FUD. That's what they do. They are the opposition after all. That nobody listens to.

There has been next to no science on this topic just drama, politics and business. Go with covaxin if you want

 

[lockhrt999]

We are a republic so there is always the rule of law.

That's like saying India uses metric system. Or our national sport is hockey.

 

[nRiTeCh]

The road to Modi’s ambitious make-in-India goal runs through China

Its a Catch-22 that ensnares companies in India making everything from a babys first toy to mobile phones: the more they try to ramp up production in competition with China, the more dependent they become on their northern neighbor for components and raw materials.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[blr_p]

That's like saying India uses metric system. Or our national sport is hockey.

Rule of law means you (yes you) can challenge the govt on any law they pass that does not conform with the constitution. Better believe it because freedom depends on it.

Shreya Singhal v. Union of India - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you remember a couple of girls got rounded up in Bombay in 2012 because they said on Facebook that Bal Thackeray's funeral would inconvenience the public?

This other girl, Shreya Singhal challenged the law that allowed this nonsense in the supreme court and won.

China is 'govern by law'. You don't get to challenge anything.

The road to Modi’s ambitious make-in-India goal runs through China

Its a Catch-22 that ensnares companies in India making everything from a babys first toy to mobile phones: the more they try to ramp up production in competition with China, the more dependent they become on their northern neighbor for components and raw materials.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Raincheck. By 2030 this will be sorted out with atmanirbar. By then semiconductor and electronic components will be available.

 

[lockhrt999]

Rule of law means you (yes you) can challenge the govt on any law they pass that does not conform with the constitution. Better believe it because freedom depends on it.

Sadly, I don't get to live in these law books. I have to live in the reality.

India lives in two parallel universe.
1. In one universe, everything is run as per rule of law. Justice system isn't politically affiliated. There's equality and real democracy. News are unbiased.
2. And the second universe is this reality.

"haathi ke daant khane ke aur dikhane ke aur"

 

[blr_p]

Sadly, I don't get to live in these law books. I have to live in the reality.

Rule of law is reality. People have to believe it. The constitution is a living document not some piece of paper.

India lives in two parallel universe.
1. In one universe, everything is run as per rule of law. Justice system isn't politically affiliated. There's equality and real democracy. News are unbiased.
2. And the second universe is this reality.

"haathi ke daant khane ke aur dikhane ke aur"

Want to talk about farm laws? sailed through parliament. No legal challenges.

The people hit the street. The SC apprehending problem stayed laws that were perfectly fine. Were they politically affiliated?

The law of the street beat the rule of law. If you kick up enough of a stink.

That is the jungle raj that goes on and even govt gets beat back from time to time. This is the lack of the rule of law.

You want to change things. FIGHT or fund others

I'm perfectly aware of what you're saying. There is theory and then there is practice. A truism that exists everywhere. Learn the system then.

 

[lockhrt999]

Rule of law is reality. People have to believe it. The constitution is a living document not some piece of paper.

Someone in Pakistan is also preaching the same thing.

Law is vague in India. And is crafted to be highly opportunistic. You want an opposition leader behind the bars, there's a random clause made for this opportunity.
Yesterday, a justice from HC said a girl marrying at the age of 14 is fine by invoking manusmriti.
Another justice from another HC gave bail to accused after knowing the rape victim was 'manglik'.

You shared Tucker Carlson many times. Even that guy was found to be crapping on the Trump off the screen. You are exposed to biased news media which paints rosy picture by ignoring the reality and choosing to show only selective news.

20 years ago, I went through BS of 'India Shining' and sad to see version 2.0 has caught more fish in the net this time.

 

[blr_p]

Someone in Pakistan is also preaching the same thing.

You are comparing us with them?

Law is vague in India. And is crafted to be highly opportunistic. You want an opposition leader behind the bars, there's a random clause made for this opportunity.
Yesterday, a justice from HC said a girl marrying at the age of 14 is fine by invoking manusmriti.
Another justice from another HC gave bail to accused after knowing the rape victim was 'manglik'.

Not section 66 which was successfully challenged.

What is Trump going through these days? Isn't he the leader of the opposition that they are desperately trying to prevent from running? They can't even run an election properly these days without half the country questioning it. The US is supposed to be a mature democracy I thought.

You shared Tucker Carlson many times. Even that guy was found to be crapping on the Trump off the screen.

Not me. I have never posted his clips here. Not because I don't agree but not relevant

You are exposed to biased news media which paints rosy picture by ignoring the reality and choosing to show only selective news.

This is the problem with people here. If it's not depressing then it must be false? The ones who claim to be speaking about reality are just pushing an agenda. Cleverly and cunningly exploiting information gaps. Just see the covaxin above. Until some proper tests came out it was a big problem. And after it all went quiet real quick.

What reality is being ignored, a specific point was made and shown. You pick what the opposition says aren't you being selective too?

No, I'm not exposed, I actively look for media biased toward the govt or neutral. I feel better, sleep better, and know more. You should try it. And then you will be able to anchor a thread single-handedly like I've done here. Over four pages and counting.

20 years ago, I went through BS of 'India Shining' and sad to see version 2.0 has caught more fish in the net this time.

Well, it's the opposite for me. I did not read the right media at the time. Not media savvy then. I did not get what Indian shining meant. Did you even look at the achievements of that govt? mobiles that we take for granted are due to them. Before that phones were considered a luxury, not a necessity. India shining. What an awesome goal to aspire to. It's a pity Vajpayee did not get a second term, we lost as a result. I remember Piyush Goyal saying a few years back that the growth continued because the commies kept blocking anything the UPA did and the result is they got very little done.

That is why 2004-2008 were the absolute worst security-wise. That is when I got into geopolitics. The difference post-2009 was night and day with that era. 26/11 happened and we did nothing. Why? because we did not have enough artillery shells to handle an escalation with Pakistan of all countries. How pathetic is that? things were allowed to fall into a state of disrepair. Could not do anything in the first UPA term. This only started to get fixed with UPA2 and you saw a more muscular India into Modi's term giving it back to them and even the Chinese. No fear of escalation any longer. Enough artillery shells now to blow either to kingdom come.

Commies were removed in the second UPA term which got clobbered with high oil prices for the extent of its term and the after-effects of the GFC.

Given some of the questions I've had maybe I shouldn't be too hard on myself. It's always obvious after you figure it out. Before it was not as obvious to figure this out. I would not have taken as long otherwise. And it needed specific conditions to reach that conclusion. A majority govt helps.

 

[guest_999]

Not section 66 which was successfully challenged.

Law killed 7 years ago by Supreme Court, but trials being held under Section 66A | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: In a stark reflection of the lack of awareness about the law laid down by the Supreme Court not only among common men but also law enforcem.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

As per the data provided by 26 states and UTs which was compiled by the Centre and placed before the bench, there are over 1,000 cases in which Section 66A was invoked and people were prosecuted even after the 2015 verdict. Interestingly, court proceedings are going on in around 169 cases, more than seven years after the law was declared invalid.
It is not that the law was incorrectly applied only in the hinterland as Section 66A was invoked by police in Delhi where still seven cases are pending while two were cancelled by the concerned magistrate.

This the "reality" you are living in. The police & the law system which forms the basis of rule of law still following something invalidated by Supreme court 7 years ago. This is just one example.

What is Trump going through these days? Isn't he the leader of the opposition that they are desperately trying to prevent from running? They can't even run an election properly these days without half the country questioning it. The US is supposed to be a mature democracy I thought.

There is no "leader of opposition" position or title in US unlike India. The fact that half the country can question an election & still institutions there don't bow under pressure(aka Republicans ruled states election authorities clearly refusing to bow to trump's demand to reverse election results) proves US is a much mature democracy than India where still religion, region & caste are used to win elections.

 

[lockhrt999]

You are comparing us with them?

Comparing reality with what's shown by news media.

Not me. I have never posted his clips here.

It was someone else then. My apologies.

You pick what the opposition says aren't you being selective too?

Like it says, I'm fan of no one. I owe my allegiance to no one but the truth and numbers.

No, I'm not exposed, I actively look for media biased toward the govt or neutral. I feel better, sleep better, and know more. You should try it.

I agree. If I do take on that diet, I'll sleep better and I'll probably live longer. Alas, I know too much. I'd love it if I'm proven wrong.

I did not read the right media at the time. Not media savvy then. I did not get what Indian shining meant.

One didn't have to read the media. We got blasted by india shining propaganda ads 24x7. Same thing is happening right now. Only difference it's 10x now. Student are getting suspended if they don't attend man ki baat telecast. Propaganda is now part of the school collage curriculum. With increased taxes, conservative import & travelling policies, extravagant public spending, homophobia, red tape, news media preaching govt 24x7, anti-democracy, this govt is more communisty than India ever was.

Vajpayee, MMS or current PM, none of our leaders were ever exceptional. All have a few moments of success with more failures to count. Vajpayee was giggling and hugging Pakistani PM in Islamabad in the same week Pakistani army pulled up in Kargil. Intelligence super failure. The country has high inertia in development, so even with Rakhi Sawant at the helm, we would still be clocking the same developing indices. Our PM hasn't done anything exceptional or anything different, well, apart from blaming failures on Nehru and British. I'll give one thing to Vajpayee, he at least didn't play 'divide and conquer' with the public.

A majority govt helps.

Unless it's from some other party. Then it's not okay.

 

[blr_p]

Law killed 7 years ago by Supreme Court, but trials being held under Section 66A | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: In a stark reflection of the lack of awareness about the law laid down by the Supreme Court not only among common men but also law enforcem.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

This the "reality" you are living in. The police & the law system which forms the basis of rule of law still following something invalidated by Supreme court 7 years ago. This is just one example.

Being tried but how many were convicted? so people can be harassed with it but what else. The point stands that you cannot get convicted under that law and if you were it will be overturned by a higher court.

This is exactly the kind of power a state can wield if you don't fight back. The reason that case is important is one person fought the state and won and this changed the law for the ENTIRE country. That some don't follow does not negate the fact. What sort of counter is that even? C'mon.

There is no "leader of opposition" position or title in US unlike India. The fact that half the country can question an election & still institutions there don't bow under pressure(aka Republicans ruled states election authorities clearly refusing to bow to trump's demand to reverse election results) proves US is a much mature democracy than India where still religion, region & caste are used to win elections.

There isn't one but are you telling me he isn't the leading candidate for the Republicans? they're going after him just like they did with Modi.

You get people questioning results here, I posted about this a decade ago. ECI still held its ground. But we never get as many of the electorate questioning the process. That is the point here. The people don't believe in the result and the number is half of them. What better vote of no confidence can you get than that?

Does not matter what we think of the US as a democracy, what do Americans think

 

[guest_999]

Being tried but how many were convicted? so people can be harassed with it but what else. The point stands that you cannot get convicted under that law and if you were it will be overturned by a higher court.

This is exactly the kind of power a state can wield if you don't fight back. The reason that case is important is one person fought the state and won and this changed the law for the ENTIRE country. That some don't follow does not negate the fact. What sort of counter is that even? C'mon.

You really don't want to see reality then. Process is the "punishment" in such cases which you will realize only when you yourself experience it firsthand.

There isn't one but are you telling me he isn't the leading candidate for the Republicans? they're going after him just like they did with Modi.

You get people questioning results here, I posted about this a decade ago. ECI still held its ground. But we never get as many of the electorate questioning the process. That is the point here. The people don't believe in the result and the number is half of them. What better vote of no confidence can you get than that?

Does not matter what we think of the US as a democracy, what do Americans think

Why are you comparing Modi with Trump in the first place? Nobody sane or logical opposed US election results, even republicans own controlled states didn't. Now some republican leaders may make "indirect" claims just for votes but at that time no major republican leader opposed it formally(aka in courts/election institutions). Americans think well of their democracy, enough to believe that incidents like Capitol Hill attack or Trump refusing to accept election result won't change the outcome of a fair election. Trump might win again but he will never win by reversing the outcome of a fair election in US like he wanted in 2020.

 

[blr_p]

Comparing reality with what's shown by news media.

False comparison. I'm surprised you even went there

It was someone else then. My apologies.

You will laugh if I told you I did not even know who Tucker was until Trump left office or did not really follow him. There is a point to be made here. A leading opposition voice has been sacked. What does that say about American press freedom?

Like it says, I'm fan of no one. I owe my allegiance to no one but the truth and numbers.

I'll take only truth here as numbers are another subject. Very difficult to get to truth. Takes a lot of time and you might not even find it. I'm looking for best approximations. Realistically, that is all you get to work with.

Reading an article you know 5%, debate and study some you get to 10%, part of industry or govt you are at 25%. From the ruling party, the decision was made then 50%. Fly on the wall listening to the people who took the decision then 100%.

So what degree of truth are you looking for?

The trouble in this country is there is no statute of limitations so very little gets declassified. A lot of the reasons behind decisions are taken to the grave by the people who took them. That affects institutional learning. We need to change this but there is no support because decisions made in the past can affect electoral prospects in the future.

I agree. If I do take on that diet, I'll sleep better and I'll probably live longer. Alas, I know too much. I'd love it if I'm proven wrong.

What I said about following pro-govt media became even more important during the Trump administration. BBC, Guardian, NYT & WAPO were off the list. Many of their TV channels as well. Forget CNN, MSNBC or the others. Fox was fine but very limited. Alt media to the rescue. My source was Steve Bannon, his former campaign manager. who ran a daily program. Trump said on Jan 6 that the US media was free but not fair. Free just means you can say anything and their media is far more abusive than ours. How many opposition voices got sacked during Trump's time? none come to mind.

Same with the Ukraine conflict because ALL Western MSM is opposition media on this topic. Here I adapted the formula to understand domestic politics into understanding an international conflict and a year in it served me well. I believe I can argue with Russians about the affairs of their state without living there or speaking their language. It amazes me how clueless Westerners are about the conflict and these are people who you could consider otherwise informed on developments.

One didn't have to read the media. We got blasted by india shining propaganda ads 24x7. Same thing is happening right now. Only difference it's 10x now. Student are getting suspended if they don't attend man ki baat telecast. Propaganda is now part of the school collage curriculum. With increased taxes, conservative import & travelling policies, extravagant public spending, homophobia, red tape, news media preaching govt 24x7, anti-democracy, this govt is more communisty than India ever was.

Vajpayee, MMS or current PM, none of our leaders were ever exceptional. All have a few moments of success with more failures to count. Vajpayee was giggling and hugging Pakistani PM in Islamabad in the same week Pakistani army pulled up in Kargil. Intelligence super failure. We would have been clocking the same numbers even if our current PM was Mayawati or Rakhi Sawant. Our PM hasn't done anything exceptional or anything different, well, apart from blaming failures on Nehru and British. I'll give one thing to Vajpayee, he at least didn't play 'divide and conquer' with the public.

Too many ratholes I want to avoid getting into that will derail the discussion. This is the usual opposition 'all-you-can-eat' buffet

I started with media and what needs to be taken into account. Back then I was clueless about media.

You cannot understand what Bush was doing by listening to CNN. We don't get Fox in India. You cannot understand what UPA is doing by listening to Arnab.

Both are great examples of time waste. You cannot speak for even five minutes about the policy of either govt listening to those sources and whatever you say is all wrong.

No, I was not smart enough to understand this distinction back then

I don't listen to Arnab much these days even because who needs to spend an hour when Palki can make the point in five minutes.

Unless it's from some other party. Then it's not okay.

Any party.

You really don't want to see reality then. Process is the "punishment" in such cases which you will realize only when you yourself experience it firsthand.

I don't deny harassment. But no conviction no cigar. The point stands. People cannot be convicted of a law that no longer exists. I think that is a reasonable argument, don't you?

Why are you comparing Modi with Trump in the first place? Nobody sane or logical opposed US election results, even republicans own controlled states didn't. Now some republican leaders may make "indirect" claims just for votes but at that time no major republican leader opposed it formally(aka in courts/election institutions). Americans think well of their democracy, enough to believe that incidents like Capitol Hill attack or Trump refusing to accept election result won't change the outcome of a fair election.

Since people like to say we are not a mature democracy i pointed out what goes on elsewhere.

Trump might win again but he will never win by reversing the outcome of a fair election in US like he wanted in 2020.

I'll believe it when I see it. I think he's gone for good. Unless something changes, Dems get a second term.

They want rubber-stamp presidents who will do what they are told. The odds of a US president getting a second term are way higher than an Indian PM going back a few decades.

Trump disrupted that rhythm. That is why he was hated by the establishment and they tell their media people to propagate that hate. The way the man was treated really did affect the way I consume media. It was so blatant.

I;ve had to change the way i understand the world since the last few years in the interests of keeping my sanity. I'm in a good place as a result.

 

[guest_999]

I don't deny harassment. But no conviction no cigar. The point stands. People cannot be convicted of a law that no longer exists. I think that is a reasonable argument, don't you?

Say that to guys who spent years in jail before being declared non-guilty & see if it makes them feel better.

Since people like to say we are not a mature democracy i pointed out what goes on elsewhere.

We are not a mature democracy, this is a fact. There are mature democracies in the world which have their own issues, that is also a fact. Feeling good about other mature democracies making mistakes while not being one doesn't change those facts.

Trump disrupted that rhythm. That is why he was hated by the establishment and they tell their media people to propagate that hate. The way the man was treated really did affect the way I consume media. It was so blatant.

Trump was one of the least competent person to ever become a US prez. The guy ran a reality show among all things & was known for it no less. He is facing charges ranging from sexual misconduct to official violation of duties & can put to shame even most Indian politicians & that is saying something.

I;ve had to change the way i understand the world since the last few years in the interests of keeping my sanity. I'm in a good place as a result.

I never change the way I understand the world to be in a good place. It is when you have to change your understanding of the world to be in a good place that you are doing something wrong because logic/rationality is not something subjective(aka 2+2 always remains 4 whether it was the dark ages or hundreds of years from now in some distant space colony).

 

[blr_p]

Say that to guys who spent years in jail before being declared non-guilty & see if it makes them feel better.

It's unfortunate but it does not change the point. It will take time.

We are not a mature democracy, this is a fact. There are mature democracies in the world which have their own issues, that is also a fact. Feeling good about other mature democracies making mistakes while not being one doesn't change those facts.

At what point according to you then do we become a mature democracy?

It's obvious where this line of reasoning leads. Nowhere. We are 75 years old, and we've had thirteen peaceful transitions of power. That is damn good if you ask me considering nobody gave us a chance to even survive as a country after independence. Don't know how we pulled it off but I'm not complaining.

Trump was one of the least competent person to ever become a US prez. The guy ran a reality show among all things & was known for it no less. He is facing charges ranging from sexual misconduct to official violation of duties & can put to shame even most Indian politicians & that is saying something.

You are not aware of his achievements then and in the foreign policy space which I look at are considerable.. Everything you said comes from the opposition. If the guy was that bad he'd not have got the votes he did. Biden's win was marginal over him instead of being a landslide.

I never change the way I understand the world to be in a good place. It is when you have to change your understanding of the world to be in a good place that you are doing something wrong because logic/rationality is not something subjective(aka 2+2 always remains 4 whether it was the dark ages or hundreds of years from now in some distant space colony).

The change is necessary because the media space has changed. The internet took away their revenues and that affected the way they cover the news. It's also got a lot more crowded. These days alt media does the deep dives we used to get in magazines or special interest programs. They don't have the budget for that anymore or very few do.