Windows Is Windows 11 stable now?

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t3chg33k said:
Device-specific issue related to power management, probably because you don't have the updated drivers.
Click to expand...
Nope its not a device specific issue.

I have reproduced the same problem in my cousins PC which is running Windows 11 21H22
And if someone can reproduce the same in their system then its a pretty major bug.


If you have SVM enabled in bios and you put your PC to sleep and when you boot (after sometime) it starts fresh instead of booting from the point where it was put to sleep.

Problem happens only when you have enabled SVM mode (Secure Virtual Machine) in your BIOS.
If you want to use virtual machine (VMware or VirtualBox) or WSA (Windows Subsystem for Android) in your PC you will have to enable SVM.

Problem goes away and PC sleeps and wakes normally when I disable SVM in bios.


Please help me reproduce the bug.

  1. Enable enable the SVM mode (in amd BIOS) & Virtualization (Intel BIOS).
  2. Open some browser tabs or any thing in you PC.
  3. Put your PC to sleep.
  4. Turn the power switch off on PSU or the outlet where you have plugged the PSU (this step makes sure the power is drained from RAM after you put your PC to sleep) and wait 3-5mins.
    {If you do not drain the power by following the 4th step the PC will wake normally}
  5. Turn ON the PSU/outlet switch and boot your PC.
  6. Check if you have booted to where you left your PC or windows booted fresh?
Repeat the above steps after Disabling the SVM mode (in amd BIOS) & Virtualization (Intel BIOS).

After doing the above steps please share your results.

Please also mention your,

Platform: (Intel or AMD)
Windows 11 Version:
If you have installed WSA or not:
If WSA is installed then is it original or rooted ?


@Ssreek since you did a fresh install can you please try reproducing the bug?
Have you installed WSA or plan to do it?
 
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mzsa1994 said:
Nope its not a device specific issue.

I have reproduced the same problem in my cousins PC which is running Windows 11 21H22
And if someone can reproduce the same in their system then its a pretty major bug.


If you have SVM enabled in bios and you put your PC to sleep and when you boot (after sometime) it starts fresh instead of booting from the point where it was put to sleep.

Problem happens only when you have enabled SVM mode (Secure Virtual Machine) in your BIOS.
If you want to use virtual machine (VMware or VirtualBox) or WSA (Windows Subsystem for Android) in your PC you will have to enable SVM.

Problem goes away and PC sleeps and wakes normally when I disable SVM in bios.


Please help me reproduce the bug.

  1. Enable enable the SVM mode (in amd BIOS) & Virtualization (Intel BIOS).
  2. Open some browser tabs or any thing in you PC.
  3. Put your PC to sleep.
  4. Turn the power switch off on PSU or the outlet where you have plugged the PSU (this step makes sure the power is drained from RAM after you put your PC to sleep) and wait 3-5mins.
    {If you do not drain the power by following the 4th step the PC will wake normally}
  5. Turn ON the PSU/outlet switch and boot your PC.
  6. Check if you have booted to where you left your PC or windows booted fresh?
Repeat the above steps after Disabling the SVM mode (in amd BIOS) & Virtualization (Intel BIOS).

After doing the above steps please share your results.

Please also mention your,

Platform: (Intel or AMD)
Windows 11 Version:
If you have installed WSA or not:
If WSA is installed then is it original or rooted ?


@Ssreek since you did a fresh install can you please try reproducing the bug?
Have you installed WSA or plan to do it?
Click to expand...
I have been using Windows 11 on my laptop for over 6 months and put it to sleep every day. Also have SVM enabled as I run VMs, so not sure why you think it is a Windows 11 issue when in fact the problem is with the setup.
 
@mzsa1994 you are NOT supposed to switch off the power in step 4 in your PC ... or am I missing something here?
Unless you are talking about hybrid sleep or full hibernation?
 
mzsa1994 said:
Turn the power switch off on PSU or the outlet where you have plugged the PSU (this step makes sure the power is drained from RAM after you put your PC to sleep) and wait 3-5mins.


@Ssreek since you did a fresh install can you please try reproducing the bug?
Have you installed WSA or plan to do it?
Click to expand...
Why are we switching off psu here… Are you getting this issue on a laptop?
 
mzsa1994 said:
Turn the power switch off on PSU or the outlet where you have plugged the PSU (this step makes sure the power is drained from RAM after you put your PC to sleep) and wait 3-5mins.
{If you do not drain the power by following the 4th step the PC will wake normally}
Click to expand...
Why are you doing this?
Sleep as you describe it is S3 state of a PC, Windows 10 & 11 go to a state called S0 Modern Standby.
Irrespective of S0 or S3, you are not supposed to turn the power off, it is a low power state and not a no power state.
Please read up on the difference between Modern Standby, Hibernate and Shut Down.
 
Looks like I have been doing things wrong from Windows 8 days :(:(
I didn't knew one shouldn't turn off the power after putting the PC to sleep mode.

Just searched a bit and found hibernate is the suitable option for me.

But I never had any issues doing what I was doing, my PC always booted normally from the point where I left.
I assumed if I put PC to sleep everything turns off except ram and its data is copied on to HDD/SDD.
Now I wonder why my PC always wakes up in mere few seconds if I don't turn off the power.
No wonder I have put my hardware thousands of time at risk and now I am concerned if I might face any problem.

Anyway there is no point to what I posted above #64, if what I was doing was wrong.


vishalrao said:
@mzsa1994 you are NOT supposed to switch off the power in step 4 in your PC ... or am I missing something here?
Unless you are talking about hybrid sleep or full hibernation?
Click to expand...
Yup you are correct, I was doing it all wrong.

JMP said:
Why are you doing this?
Sleep as you describe it is S3 state of a PC, Windows 10 & 11 go to a state called S0 Modern Standby.
Irrespective of S0 or S3, you are not supposed to turn the power off, it is a low power state and not a no power state.
Please read up on the difference between Modern Standby, Hibernate and Shut Down.
Click to expand...
Thanks mate finally I know what I should have known way back.
 
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@mzsa1994 no worries bro, it was working for you earlier probably because you were using hybrid sleep not regular sleep...

But if you always want to turn off power and still resume the system then yeah just do hibernation.

I guess plain hibernation would be faster than hybrid sleep but you can try both whichever is faster.
Also, I prefer to disable fast startup to save a bit of shutdown time. It's like a marketing gimmick in my opinion.
 
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vishalrao said:
@mzsa1994 no worries bro, it was working for you earlier probably because you were using hybrid sleep not regular sleep...

But if you always want to turn off power and still resume the system then yeah just do hibernation.

I guess plain hibernation would be faster than hybrid sleep but you can try both whichever is faster.
Also, I prefer to disable fast startup to save a bit of shutdown time. It's like a marketing gimmick in my opinion.
Click to expand...

How do I confirm if the Sleep option in power menu was triggering Hybrid Sleep ??


I searched and found hybrid sleep option should be listed in Power Option.
opj.png





But it does not show in my in Power Option menu and now I am really confused.
1664459650886.png
 
@mzsa1994 I believe just enable that hybrid sleep option you saw will make the sleep into hybrid version... But just google for "how to enable hybrid sleep in windows" to read some online guides because I haven't tried myself...
 
mzsa1994 said:
Looks like I have been doing things wrong from Windows 8 days :(:(
I didn't knew one shouldn't turn off the power after putting the PC to sleep mode.
Click to expand...
Looks like I didn't convey my point across correctly. Mate, Hybrid sleep works, you can cut off power and the system should resume at its prior state, but that is not the intended design but rather a backup plan. In Modern Standby, you leave the system in low powered state so that it can respond to events and sometimes even do connected tasks like updates or IFTTT.

What is your PC configuration? (CPU, Motherboard)
Have you updated to compatible/latest BIOS & Chipset drivers?
 
Hoo Lee Sheet for a brief past couple of hours I felt so dumb and regretful that I was doing things wrong.

Finally figured out what was the issue.

What I was doing was pretty normal (Hybrid Sleep is ON by default).
So if you click Sleep in power menu you are triggering Hybrid Sleep and if you wish to convert into hibernation simply turn off the power ( as pointed by @gourav )

So now the question comes why was I having trouble in the first place.

2 days ago I installed WSA (Windows Subsystem for Android) to run it on your PC you need to enable Virtual Machine Platform in Turn Windows Feature On or Off

1664462475486.png



But if you enable this VMP feature (Virtual Machine Platform) than Hybrid Sleep will be automatically disabled.
So when I was clicking Sleep in power menu it was no longer triggering "Hybrid Sleep" but a normal "Sleep" where you cannot turn the PC power off and if you do you lose the machine state.

When I was disabling SVM mode in BIOS I was technically disabling the VMP feature after which Hybrid Sleep was enabled indirectly.
So after learning this my main culprit was VMP feature (Virtual Machine Platform), so I disabled and enabled it to confirm.

When I enable VMP, Hybrid Sleep is not available
1664463993989.png


But if I disable VMP, Hybrid Sleep is available
1664464062893.png



Hybrid Sleep will also get disabled if you turn ON Hyper-V

No Hybrid Sleep: "The hypervisor does not support this standby state."

social.technet.microsoft.com social.technet.microsoft.com

1664464374391.png


JMP said:
Looks like I didn't convey my point across correctly. Mate, Hybrid sleep works, you can cut off power and the system should resume at its prior state, but that is not the intended design but rather a backup plan. In Modern Standby, you leave the system in low powered state so that it can respond to events and sometimes even do connected tasks like updates or IFTTT.

What is your PC configuration? (CPU, Motherboard)
Have you updated to compatible/latest BIOS & Chipset drivers?
Click to expand...

Your concern is 100% valid if Hybrid Sleep is the hybrid of Sleep and Hibernation then technically the hardware is in low power mode.
Although one can resume the windows from the same state if the person deliberately cuts the power or accidentally looses the power.

Is it safe to cut power after hybrid sleep in windows 7?
Even Microsoft has not clarified to the user raising the same concern in above thread.

I will have to look deeply if it is safe to cut the power in Hybrid Sleep.

Since I will need to enable VMP feature for WSA I will use Hibernation.
 
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mzsa1994 said:
Since I will need to enable VMP feature for WSA I will use Hibernation.
Click to expand...
Must have been an adventure figuring all this out. I've never known about hybrid sleep since I have always turned on Virtualization in BIOS so it was never a thing for me.
I also keep my PCs in sleep mode but I never cut off power. Only laptops use hibernation to save battery.

TBH hybrid sleep seems like it would do a lot of writes to your boot drive (usually an SSD). Now I have 32GB RAM on my gaming desktop and 16GB on other systems and putting the system to either hybrid sleep or a normal hibernate every so often would definitely fcuk the NAND sooner.
My work laptop, I put to hibernate cuz I don't care about the SSD life on that cuz that's the job of my employer to replace. We work on VDIs anyway so the laptop is just a means of access, there's no data on it.
 
enthusiast29 said:
Must have been an adventure figuring all this out. I've never known about hybrid sleep since I have always turned on Virtualization in BIOS so it was never a thing for me.
I also keep my PCs in sleep mode but I never cut off power. Only laptops use hibernation to save battery.

TBH hybrid sleep seems like it would do a lot of writes to your boot drive (usually an SSD). Now I have 32GB RAM on my gaming desktop and 16GB on other systems and putting the system to either hybrid sleep or a normal hibernate every so often would definitely fcuk the NAND sooner.
My work laptop, I put to hibernate cuz I don't care about the SSD life on that cuz that's the job of my employer to replace. We work on VDIs anyway so the laptop is just a means of access, there's no data on it.
Click to expand...
Yup it was a roller coaster ride and I wasted whole day :blackeye:

  • Windows only disables Hybrid Sleep and switches to normal Sleep if you enable Virtualization in BIOS and enable Hyper-V or Virtual Machine Platform in Windows Feature.
  • If you have only Virtualization enabled in BIOS and both Hyper-V & VMP are disabled in Windows Features then you can still use Hybrid Sleep.
  • If you have both Hyper-V & VMP enabled in Windows Features but Virtualization is disabled in BIOS then Hybrid Sleep will still be available because Hyper-V and VMP are virtualization dependent.

1664478039847.png


Looks like I need to go in Sleep mode lol
 
mzsa1994 said:
  • Windows only disables Hybrid Sleep and switches to normal Sleep if you enable Virtualization in BIOS and enable Hyper-V or Virtual Machine Platform in Windows Feature.
  • If you have only Virtualization enabled in BIOS and both Hyper-V & VMP are disabled in Windows Features then you can still use Hybrid Sleep.
  • If you have both Hyper-V & VMP enabled in Windows Features but Virtualization is disabled in BIOS then Hybrid Sleep will still be available because Hyper-V and VMP are virtualization dependent.
Click to expand...
I have Virtualization enabled in BIOS and I use VMware for my work.
I do not have Hyper-V or Virtual Machine Platform enabled in Windows.

I don't see hybrid sleep in the power options. That maybe because I've disabled hibernation entirely on my machines by using a command line config

powercfg -h off

I use that because I don't want to accidently hit Hibernate in the start menu and use up 16/32GB from by SSD's NAND life. Also with hibernation enabled you'll always have that hiberfil.sys file in your drive taking up same space as your RAM even if you don't hibernate ever.

Hibernate was a good feature back in the days when HDD was your boot drive. The dreaded boot up times were reduced to a 15-20 sec at max and an additional bonus of your programs already loaded in memory.
But now the sleep mode is as good as that and the power usage in S3 sleep state is so little like 2-5W only it barely makes a dent on the bill.
 
Has anyone installed 22H2 update on an unsupported device? I am currently on 21H2. I meet most of their requirements, except for 7th gen processor.
 
So just now faced my first BSOD with W11, on V21H2 unsupported hardware. Makes me more reluctant to install 22H2 given the issues faced by users here, especially when going for upgrade than clean install.
 
Not sure if late to the party, but I'm seeing many people commenting on how they feel as if they are beta testers.

Well, the truth is we ARE beta testers lol. I'll find the link, but I had read that they essentially fired their OS feedback team and created Insider programme.
 
kvn95ss said:
Not sure if late to the party, but I'm seeing many people commenting on how they feel as if they are beta testers.

Well, the truth is we ARE beta testers lol. I'll find the link, but I had read that they essentially fired their OS feedback team and created Insider programme.
Click to expand...
Of course and this shouldn't be news to all especially now. It's been so since Win10 original 2015 initial release.

They even have a thing called "branch readiness" which if I explain in a gist is that any release which made public is deemed "stable" is for CONSUMERS (non-business users) ONLY.
After 6 months or when the next version is released (whichever is earlier) the previous version is deemed stable for business and enterprise users.

So for example now Win11 v21H2 is deemed stable for business users since the latest is v22H2. Business IT admins can deploy it using WSUS if needed.

All of this applies to Office releases as well but even more deeply as they have much more fine grained update channels for it. Such as monthly, Semi-annually, Annually, Perpetual and more.
Of course being a consumer with retail version you have no control over those options.
 
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