Market Feedback Issue with member uziel

[Naga]

i disagree mate peeps like us who dont have tons of money get the stuff from market section...

Peeps like that should worry more about frauds than risky cheaper deals. I actually don't have any probs with the present setup. I buy from guys I trust. Doesn't matter if I pay first or they ship out 1st. I don't sell. Ever.

what ever peeps say market section on TE is a major draw for new members

New members are always welcome. But any member joining a tech site solely for the market, one which is un-regulated (no safe guards for deals), is either a n00b or a cheat. A n00b is ok, I was one once. But even then, I don't think their life lessons learnt on TE should be monetary based. Cheats, on the other hand, would seem incongruous on a tech site. How does a cheat fit on a tech site? Okay, momentarily forgot about the market...Scratch my last question. I have the answer. He visits the site as many times as he wants and laughs at all the ppl discussing who's in the right and vice versa when HE knows he lied and cheated and is the worst scum on the planet but he'd rather have laughs at the ppl pointing out how the buyer had to research his purchase before committing himself to a deal. What's the bloody benefit of selling/ buying on TE if the trust factor is implicitly blocked/ denied? If members have to take all risks and do all research for a blatantly misleading sale and the cheat doing the misleading can come and laugh at the posts, what is the point?

E-bay or the high way. Or some other way which does not impinge on my personal sense of privacy. I think I'll start a thread on issues like this. Anybody in support, start your thread first. I'll join in.

@a case solved with the help of TE that has been linked/ referenced a few times,what would have been the result if the aggrieved party had not resorted to extra-legal means? Some members helped (there were some berating the OP for his n00bishness) but finally it was his "muscle power" that solved the case.

 

[paraskhosla]

after seeing so many thread si have to say this coz i didnt reply coz didnt want to make comments on this issue coz its very sensitive

i wanna say that after all this i think its the fault of both buyer and seller maybe the % might go up or down consediring the said deal or situation but more or less its the same

i think on a level the buyer does not takes pains due to maybe excitement of getting the product or maybe he is in a rush or maybe anything else.He just completely relies on what seller says(as in this case)

if u ask me its the responsibility of the buyer to know about the product.But in this situation i do say that seller is also at a bit fault coz he didnt technically lie but misrepresented the said facts

not for e.i. if some1 asks me if about my previous cards 5850 and ask that wether they can do Physx and i say yah they can then it is responsibility of the said buyer to enquire wether the said facts are true or not

the basic problem our forum is having is lack of resposnsibility on the said members and coz of this so many problems

simple solution to this would be making buyer more concsious about the facts of the said deal and seller should take more care of what he speaks and that he doesnt give a bad picture of the said product in question

i hope i mase some sense but really this is really sad to see so many peeps now just having problems

 

[seshu]

^ it's really a sensitive issue and thank you friend for pin-pointing the fault on the buyer

 

[shantanugoel]

after seeing so many thread si have to say this coz i didnt reply coz didnt want to make comments on this issue coz its very sensitive

i wanna say that after all this i think its the fault of both buyer and seller maybe the % might go up or down consediring the said deal or situation but more or less its the same

i think on a level the buyer does not takes pains due to maybe excitement of getting the product or maybe he is in a rush or maybe anything else.He just completely relies on what seller says(as in this case)

if u ask me its the responsibility of the buyer to know about the product.But in this situation i do say that seller is also at a bit fault coz he didnt technically lie but misrepresented the said facts

not for e.i. if some1 asks me if about my previous cards 5850 and ask that wether they can do Physx and i say yah they can then it is responsibility of the said buyer to enquire wether the said facts are true or not

the basic problem our forum is having is lack of resposnsibility on the said members and coz of this so many problems

simple solution to this would be making buyer more concsious about the facts of the said deal and seller should take more care of what he speaks and that he doesnt give a bad picture of the said product in question

i hope i mase some sense but really this is really sad to see so many peeps now just having problems

HUH.. when did "misrepresenting the facts" become different from lying? And he straight up gave the wrong product link as well, which is also lying..
If I sold you an AMD K2 saying and gave you the link to core i5 to do all the checking, wouldn't you say it is seller's fault?
In the above example you could have asked the seller to show pics and come to know the difference but in this case the pics didn't show any discernable difference between OEM version and the retail product. And the seller was very much aware that it is an OEM version and quite different and cut down from retail version and still he gave the link to the retail product. This is why everyone is saying that he lied. There would be an instaban on someone who sold an OEM copy of Windows here saying that it is retail, so same is the case here.

Anyways, I see this discussion going nowhere. The seller hasn't turned up in so many days even though he reads it daily (probably laughing as he sips his morning coffee).. So nothing can be done about it..

 

[shravank30]

Maybe this seller is not bothered as has itrader rating of 1 & is a newbie here.

But if he is blacklisted, then maybe other wannabes will be deterred & maybe other forums where he may want to join or is already a member will come to know of this blacklisting & be cautious.

If no action is taken against this seller of blacklisting him, then others will feel they can also get away with it.

In one of the earlier posts i read that Mods have agreed to blacklist the seller ?

Was it correct & is it going to be implemented ?

Or the Mods are still unsure of blacklisting the seller ?

 

[shantanugoel]

How about splitting the market section into FS and WTB subforums and newbies can create a new thread in FS only when they have more than a certain number of positive WTB iTrader points?

This would not remove all conflicts but still would deter the one-hit wonders like this who are here just to cheat..

And if you think it will cause problems to people who want to sell only and not buy, then I think we should not be too concerned about that because TE is not a trading platform. It is a tech discussion forum and trading is just a bonus.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

if u ask me its the responsibility of the buyer to know about the product.But in this situation i do say that seller is also at a bit fault coz he didnt technically lie but misrepresented the said facts

If you didn't check the sale thread, then check it carefully once more. The seller has outright lied from the start. The seller provided a link to a retail product on Avermedia's site when the item he has was completely different and he should have linked to the Item on Dell's site. Not once does he mention the fact that its an OEM version and that most of the features mentioned in the aver media link does not work on the product he has.

Tell me if I put up a sale thread for a 5870 and put a link to 5850 specs and then send you a 5670. My justification is that 5670 is from the same family as 5870 and has a lot of matching specs in terms of GPU features. Would you still say that its the buyers fault that he did not verify everything. A buyer can verify something when the seller mentions what he is selling correctly. How can one verify when the seller puts up the link for a product and its not actually the product he has.

 

[adder]

How about from hence forth,ask new members to register only with email provided by ISPs ,dpreviewforums,bharat rakshak,overclockers.co.uk etc,have this policy,so the blacklisted member have limited to no options of re-registering.

 

[Alias]

How about from hence forth,ask new members to register only with email provided by ISPs ,dpreviewforums,bharat rakshak,overclockers.co.uk etc,have this policy,so the blacklisted member have limited to no options of re-registering.

And what would members with no ISP emails like me (haven't bothered with one tbh) do to register here?

It comes to a point where the TE market dictates the forum rules including registration/signing up? Dont we lose the purpose of the original forum as in it being open to all techies ?
But i think we can use your suggestion modified as in to incorporate a registration process for market where people wishing to deal in the marketplace would need to provide a mandatory full name and valid ISP email/ educational/ company email etc which is subject to authorization/rejection by the admins.

Not a foolproof way of blacklisting potential cheaters (as in you can use a friends id to again register another account) but it can potentially deter a lot of folks with the need to match the official name + email matchup. But this does call for some overhead for the mods as in to go by a case by case review for each member applying for market registration.

 

[adder]

And what would members with no ISP emails like me (haven't bothered with one tbh) do to register here?

It comes to a point where the TE market dictates the forum rules including registration/signing up? Dont we lose the purpose of the original forum as in it being open to all techies ?
But i think we can use your suggestion modified as in to incorporate a registration process for market where people wishing to deal in the marketplace would need to provide a mandatory full name and valid ISP email/ educational/ company email etc which is subject to authorization/rejection by the admins.

Not a foolproof way of blacklisting potential cheaters (as in you can use a friends id to again register another account) but it can potentially deter a lot of folks with the need to match the official name + email matchup. But this does call for some overhead for the mods as in to go by a case by case review for each member applying for market registration.

Well if you look at oveclockers.co.uk they only don't accept email id from gmail,hotmail,yahoo etc,they do accept email id of your work place like xxxx@microsoft.com or xxxx@dell.com etc,.

So i guess this can be implented atleast in the market section.

Even i did not know that i had isp id,only after calling the bsnl CC did they tell me that i already had one.

 

[shantanugoel]

what good does an ISP ID do? FYI most ISPs allow multiple ids. Tying it in with an ISP id is also a hassle because what if I change my ISP? How will I login then? and many ISPs dont even provide an ID. What would a student do whose college doesn't give him an id, neither his ISP does?

Edit: and moreover, you cannot block ALL the free email providers in the world.. if someone wants to scam, he can easily find out an email domain that is not blocked..

 

[adder]

Well it won't prevent,but it will certainely bring down the numbers of fraudsters.
Again it can be implemented only for the market section.

funny thing is in another forum teambhp one has to come up with a good love letter to the admins/mods to even post a single post,yet rejected users are free to post an Ad.

 

[sg3707]

I dont know what all new rules will be implemented. But one can find the Intentions of a new member by checking their threads and Posts.

For example Threads Started By: uziel http://www.techenclave.com/search.php?searchid=2691773

 

[The Sauron]

This thread is going no where, buyer still with no justice, seller run away or laughing on the discussion going on here.

 

[seshu]

^ let me thank all the friends again for the kind support ...

 

[akg7091]

what good does an ISP ID do? FYI most ISPs allow multiple ids. Tying it in with an ISP id is also a hassle because what if I change my ISP? How will I login then? and many ISPs dont even provide an ID. What would a student do whose college doesn't give him an id, neither his ISP does?

Edit: and moreover, you cannot block ALL the free email providers in the world.. if someone wants to scam, he can easily find out an email domain that is not blocked..

I don't even know if I have an ISP id :bleh:

 

[seshu]

Request : is it possible for a couple of members at Delhi to meet the seller and

try to convince him to pay back my money & accept the product back please

I've got contact details of the seller confirmed by another member here ...

 

[TECH HUNTER]

Paypal and ebay pay hire and pay people to maintain their services 24/7. TE is managed by a bunch of volunteers and they do it out of their own time and money. They have their own private lives to take care of. Who the heck do you think is going to manage the payments and receipts for all the deals happening 24/7 on TE and whose going to settle the disputes that arise in that system as well?

That is the only answer I agree with right now. How about giving your own personal solution to accountability instead of shooting down valid possible solutions by saying, "I dunno but that is not the right answer" :no:? Why is it so unpalatable to use e-bay to buy/sell? AFAIK, both ends would be well protected and we would be free of all these financial disputes which are anyway out of place on a supposedly tech forum.

The e-bay way or restrict market access to older members (min posts+min duration of membership). Don't everybody jump in with meaningless posts like "that is not an answer" unless you do have the correct answer. You can't have a open for all shop and expect only honest guys to come in. Older members have invested their time on TE and it won't be convenient for them to just change ID's at the drop of a hat.

In the long run, whatever be TE's rules, we are going to have ppl complaining that they have been cheated on TE. Unless something like the afore-mentioned 2 solutions are implemented or TE becomes a (god forbid) e-commerce site with it's own payment gateway.

Because you didn't like the solution,you can't say i didn't had an answer.
when a few volunteers can manage the whole forum and website,how come it's hard to manage only this issue?
what does valid/meaningful mean?
asking the buyer to pay more on ebay?
do you know that ebay is having more ratio of disputes than TE.
reason:they are money minded and we are service minded and market is a privilege.
Now a few suggest to do every thing by ebay route.
now ebay will be getting more and more business because we are thinking to run away from responsibility.
And you say people here don't have time.
Don't ignore the fact that for resolving 1 dispute these much of lengthy discussion and still nothing has done.
so,you have time to make lengthy posts and lengthy discussion for one single issue,but no time to take responsibility.
it's not that hard with a bunch of volunteers.
but just doesn't want to do that for your own reasons.
remember nothing has done till now even after a week and the buyer has to suffer.
Justice delayed is justice denied.

If you want the superior services/protection offered by a commercial e-com site, then by all means use that.

FYI i am not saying this for my own benefit,so don't point out me personally.
i am already cheated,so will be very careful and keen.
Just wanted to suggest something better for every ones benefit which you people didn't like.
then just leave it.

P.S: I am staying away from this.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Because you didn't like the solution,you can't say i didn't had an answer.

when a few volunteers can manage the whole forum and website,how come it's hard to manage only this issue?

Because managing this issue is bigger and much more complex than managing a forum. There is money involved here. If you cannot implicitly trust a forum member who wants to buy/sell in the market, whats different about this volunteer middleman (who is as any other member on on the forum) that you want to trust him with your money. Who's going to ensure that the middleman is fair to both buyer and seller. Remember that unlike eBay, there is no office or contact address for TE. Who's going to manage the accounts and tally everything. How many deals do you think take place on TE every day?

If it were so easy, we wouldn't have a commercial entity like eBay providing such a service and making money out of it. I am afraid you do not even have an idea of what's involved in implementing a such a model.

what does valid/meaningful mean?

asking the buyer to pay more on ebay?

eBay spends money to provide you all those nice facilities. Thats why you pay more on eBay. I am sure even TE would end up with expenditure to act as a middleman for buyer and seller and provide that safety. I am also sure that TE cannot compete with an entity like eBay for the cost of services rendered.

do you know that ebay is having more ratio of disputes than TE.

reason:they are money minded and we are service minded and market is a privilege.

It takes money to render services related to money, Do you seriously think that there won't be issues if TE acts as middle. There would be even more disputes and TE and the middleman would get crushed in between. Unlike eBay who pays people to take care of the disputes, TE won't have enough people to take care of it.

Now a few suggest to do every thing by ebay route.

now ebay will be getting more and more business because we are thinking to run away from responsibility.

And you say people here don't have time.

Don't ignore the fact that for resolving 1 dispute these much of lengthy discussion and still nothing has done.

so,you have time to make lengthy posts and lengthy discussion for one single issue,but no time to take responsibility.

it's not that hard with a bunch of volunteers.

but just doesn't want to do that for your own reasons.

remember nothing has done till now even after a week and the buyer has to suffer.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Just a realty check, would you care to volunteer for this. Remember you will not be paid anything. You will need take note of all the deals happening, payments received and payments sent, maintain the bank account, pay any bank charges incurred due to the volume of transactions, make balance sheets and reports, ensure that sellers get prompt service, take care of any disputes to the satisfaction of both parties?

 

[Naga]

Because you didn't like the solution,you can't say i didn't had an answer.
when a few volunteers can manage the whole forum and website,how come it's hard to manage only this issue?
what does valid/meaningful mean?
asking the buyer to pay more on ebay?
do you know that ebay is having more ratio of disputes than TE.
reason:they are money minded and we are service minded and market is a privilege.

What exactly was the solution you gave which I did not like? I've just gone back to your original post and just saw comments like "That's not the right answer, we should implement fair practice, etc", no solutions! Can you please highlight whatever you think the solution was in your post?
That apart, how do you propose "a few volunteers" manage this? Without a system like e-bay's paisa pay, how do you suggest accountability? About market being a privilege, I don't think so. Any Tom, Dick or Harry can become a member and start using it.

Now a few suggest to do every thing by ebay route.
now ebay will be getting more and more business because we are thinking to run away from responsibility.

How does that effect TE? How does TE benefit financially from the deals here? What "business" are we sending to e-bay? And what responsibility are we running from? TE notes explicitly that all deals are between members and TE cannot do anything for deals gone wrong outside of banning/ blacklisting a member. TE doesn't get a paisa from any market deal, but due to innocent members getting cheated now and again, TE sure is earning a bad name.

Don't ignore the fact that for resolving 1 dispute these much of lengthy discussion and still nothing has done.

That's cos TE is not equipped to handle financial transactions or fraud matters! Unless some members take it upon themselves to go and physically threaten the cheat (which is illegal), there's no way any member can help out in cases like this.

so,you have time to make lengthy posts and lengthy discussion for one single issue,but no time to take responsibility.
it's not that hard with a bunch of volunteers.
but just doesn't want to do that for your own reasons.
remember nothing has done till now even after a week and the buyer has to suffer.
Justice delayed is justice denied.

So, once again, what is your answer to the problem? What do you propose TE or a bunch of volunteers do?

FYI i am not saying this for my own benefit,so don't point out me personally.
i am already cheated,so will be very careful and keen.
Just wanted to suggest something better for every ones benefit which you people didn't like.
then just leave it.

So pls do suggest something, anything. I'm begging you!

P.S: I am staying away from this.

Why are you of all people running away from your responsibility? We're a**holes cos we don't have a solution but you just walk away! Why not do something yourself cos TE cannot legally do anything here outside of black listing the cheat. Justice delayed is justice denied.