Just received a warning mail from SONY!!!!!!

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You know SONY, if you're reading this....

I'm gonna borrow my friend's PS3 to play Killzone 2 and 3

And not pay for it, and you can't do anything about it.

Or are you gonna take me to court, for playing the game on my friend's PS3 and not buying one for my own?
 
Party Monger said:
Yes they own the hardware and they have every right to run what ever software they want on it. If the console came with a platform to facilitate games(which obviously is bundled cause its a GAMING console) the user has every right to use that platform for running the software he wants. Sony can not sell a hardware and say use it only for gaming.

The user can run any software, but only as long as it doesn't involve modifying the firmware whose IPR belongs to Sony. The user is free to do what ever he wants with the hardware, but the firmware has to be used only in the manner specified by Sony. If the CFW has been written from scratch without using any of Sony's IP (firmware code/binaries/drivers), then the user can sure as hell use it, but then Sony has no obligation to allow such consoles on their PSN Network. They can definitely ban consoles that don't comply with the terms of service of their PSN Service.

Party Monger said:
LOL Do they have the right to kill me if their terms of use indicate that they have the right to kill me if open their seal? Obviously Sony can write any shit they want to in the terms, only the reasonable and lawful part can be enforced. Its one thing to not aide in making programs compatible, and another to deliberately break promised/existing features.

Obviously, what I meant is they can do everything they can within their legal limits. If they had done anything illegal and clearly making changes to their firmware seems to be within their rights as otherwise they would be in court over it.

Party Monger said:
You dont understand how piracy works, the people who you mention are those who wouldnt play the game if they didnt have the choice to pirate it. Its similar to how people wouldnt watch as many movies if they didnt have the option to pirate them.

So the people u mention cant be counted in the cycle.

That does not leave enough people for developers to sell their games cheap and and still meet their revenue targets. So how can the prices be low in such a case?

Party Monger said:
The main reason piracy exists is cause of the exorbitant rates that are charged. Make the rates reasonable and get a delivery medium just as easy as pirating a game /movie, and you will see people buying it!

Dont expect me to go throught the hassle of finding a dealer, contacting, ordering, transferring money, waiting for the game to arrive, courier hassles, and finally getting the game. Any one would chose to simply put it in his download que and play the game a day later!

You are wrong, piracy does not exist because of high prices, but because people can get away without consequences. If people get caught and punished just like with any other form of theft, piracy would be minimal regardless of the prices. You cannot reduce piracy to that extent just by reducing prices. No matter how low the price, there would still be a considerable amount of piracy as long as people can get away with it. If the laws are strict, there would be only two choices, you either buy the game or you don't and Sony is still going to get what ever revenue they are getting now.

Party Monger said:
Really, why count the trees when the fruit is sweet? What it lacked in tech it made up in innovation! Just cause the tech used is not as good as PS3 you cant underrate it! I mean even when you are comparing you are comparing just the PROCESSING power, what about the motion sensors and all they used in the WII way before the PS3 even released (and dont even mention MOVE releasing almost half a decade after Wii)!

Consider the whole package, not just the processing power. Also, we are taking about a gaming console, not the gaming console with most processing power. Ultimate aim is to see what makes gaming more fun. Justifying by judging on all the wrong parameters is stupid.
bah...both those companies have had motion sensing related research for a long time before either Wii or PS3 came about. Nintendo had sensor based motion sensing and Sony had vision based motion sensing in products predating their latest consoles. Even PS2 had Eye Toy for motion based games. The PS3 had two forms of motion sensing (6 AXIS controller, Playstation Eye) before Move came about. Frankly, None of the motion controller tech currently in use (Wii, Move, Kinnect) are innovations from respective companies, the underlying tech have been in use by University students for amateur research for a long time.

Wii motion sensing controller is neither innovative nor accurate. There are games where it works flawlessly and there are those where it does not. The controller had very little in terms of tech and it is very apt to compare Wii to the PS2 than to PS3 if you are talking in terms of tech. If you are talking about the fun aspect then yes, I find NES, SNES, PS2, PS3, XBOX 360 to be much more fun than Wii on avg. I would much rather play the virtual console games on Wii with a conventional controller than your avg Wii game.
 
Roxtin said:
In short what you wanted to say is to damn with the Publishing Houses and Game Developers I WOULD PLAY PIRATED GAMES ONLY right?

Well about your reason for not standing in line on store, looking for dealer, courier etc. you should know that almost all Publishers now provide the Digital Download feature which you can PAY and use but only If you wanna Pay

Moreover about reducing the price it may go down in future if Publishers go 100% Digital that would save em the burning/logistics costs by far.
I dont see where you draw that conclusion from.

Quite simply, i meant lower rates of games, make them available atleast at one shop in each city or atleast digitally.

Pay and download games? On the PS3 its nowhere near what they have on PC(steam).
 
I hate it when people come barging in, telling users to respect the "rights" of a company.

By all accounts, Sony should go after the pirates but will it compensate those who suffer due to DRM after buying the games? There is this new stupid idea of sell-is-a-lease propagated by all IT consumer goods manufacturers. Gosh, when people pay some money they ought to have the control of their devices. Sadly, there are so many users who don't get it.
 
hatter said:
By all accounts, Sony should go after the pirates but will it compensate those who suffer due to DRM after buying the games? There is this new stupid idea of sell-is-a-lease propagated by all IT consumer goods manufacturers. Gosh, when people pay some money they ought to have the control of their devices. Sadly, there are so many users who don't get it.
I'm sorry i didnt get ur point? How r u affected if the DRM is on Game Disc? AFAIK Console Disc's DRM doesnt affect Console users, it is painful for PC users though, just correct me if I am wrong!
 
If any one I knew ever got arrested for Piracy, I would never download an illegal file again. I will probably stop playing games if I can't afford to buy them. The fact is, no normal person would BUY a thing he can GET for free with virtually ZERO risk. People don't do anything without incentives.
 
As Lord Nemesis mentioned, till enforcement is not there piracy will be rampant. Like with all the ills and crimes of society.

If PSN is Sony's they can decide the minimal criterion which one must pass to utilize the service. That is how it works. Simple
 
baccilus said:
If any one I knew ever got arrested for Piracy, I would never download an illegal file again. I will probably stop playing games if I can't afford to buy them. The fact is, no normal person would BUY a thing he can GET for free with virtually ZERO risk. People don't do anything without incentives.
Well said. Most people pirate games because there are no consequences. Hence, people think piracy is not stealing which it is. Until the people are punished for their actions, piracy will not stop.

Also, people should understand that game piracy is different than movie or music piracy. Movies and music have multiple sources of revenue to make money (that doesn't mean you should pirate them), but games have only one source of revenue i.e. retail sales. Hence, piracy hurts the game industry more than other entertainment industry.

Like i said before, if you can't afford to buy games skip them, wait till price drops to your comfort level or buy games second hand which are also cheaper. Don't give lame excuses like high price, will buy original later etc.
 
Well said. Most people pirate games because there are no consequences. Hence, people think piracy is not stealing which it is. Until the people are punished for their actions, piracy will not stop.

well i think 60$ is too high for a game, so can I pirate it??

Look at Crysis 2 EA's LTd edition in India, 750 bucks. Now that's what I WILL BUY.

COD Rs. 2999 ??? No thanks, I love my torrents.
 
comp@ddict said:
well i think 60$ is too high for a game, so can I pirate it??

Look at Crysis 2 EA's LTd edition in India, 750 bucks. Now that's what I WILL BUY.

COD Rs. 2999 ??? No thanks, I love my torrents.
Is playing games a compulsion or a necessity like food or water?

iPhone is priced 3 times the US price in India, will you steal it if you can't buy it?

I agree that COD was priced way too high but that's an exception. But what about other games, most of the console games are priced at 2500(approx 50 dollars) which you can get around 2200 Rs (approx 45 dollars). How low do you want ? Also, you can get the games at much lower prices second hand on various forums.

The price you are referring for Crysis 2 is a promotional price from Flipkart, not all game vendors are offering it.
 
Well said. Most people pirate games because there are no consequences. Hence, people think piracy is not stealing which it is. Until the people are punished for their actions, piracy will not stop.

Also, people should understand that game piracy is different than movie or music piracy. Movies and music have multiple sources of revenue to make money (that doesn't mean you should pirate them), but games have only one source of revenue i.e. retail sales. Hence, piracy hurts the game industry more than other entertainment industry.

Like i said before, if you can't afford to buy games skip them, wait till price drops to your comfort level or buy games second hand which are also cheaper. Don't give lame excuses like high price, will buy original later etc.

Is playing games a compulsion or a necessity like food or water?

iPhone is priced 3 times the US price in India, will you steal it if you can't buy it?

I agree that COD was priced way too high but that's an exception. But what about other games, most of the console games are priced at 2500(approx 50 dollars) which you can get around 2200 Rs (approx 45 dollars). How low do you want ? Also, you can get the games at much lower prices second hand on various forums.

The price you are referring for Crysis 2 is a promotional price from Flipkart, not all game vendors are offering it.

Though this post quotes a particular post it is not directed at that particular person. The post is only quoted because it has all the points that I want to talk about. I am not talking for or against piracy and am just giving points from a particular viewpoint

First the points on which I agree with:

1. People pirate because there usually are no consequences.

2. Gaming is not a necessity.

3. Gaming is more hard hit than other industries due to piracy.

But now some points that do not seem to be right when we are talking in terms of 1+1=2 without attaching any emotions or moral stuff to the points.

Firstly, yes piracy would come under stealing but it should not be compared to stealing cars, iphones, pencils or whatever. Because they are physical entities. If you steal a car, one product that was produced disappears. It is not the case with games. Stealing an original game disk and pirating a game are two different things. Yes, both ARE stealing and doing both IS wrong, but putting forward this point during these kind of debates is not correct because of the difference in the nature of products. But this point is the most used point in such kind of debates. There are better points to put forward.

Next, we need to be clear what is our interest-

1. Not wanting production houses to lose money or incur losses.

or

2. Not wanting people to have stuff for free.

If our interest is the first point, then it is justified because we being gamers donot want companies to lose money so that they would give us better games.

But if it is the second point it is actually none of our business.

People often are asked to skip the game if they are not able to buy it- but,

The production house doesnt get money if a person skips the game.

The production house doesnt get money if a person pirates the game.

So here the interest seems to be on the second point.

People feel and think that buying second hand games is ok but it obviously is the same thing as piracy on a lesser scale.

The production house doesnt get money if a person buys a second hand game.

The production house doesnt get money if a person pirates a game.

Are you just happy that the person is paying and buying a second hand game? Here too the interest definitely is in the second point.

Asking people to wait for the prices to reduce is a good thing to do and has its interest in the first point.

Now, PSN is owned and operated by SONY and it takes money to keep it running. I dont think anyone ever said in this thread or any thread on the internet that people who are playing a pirated game should be allowed on PSN, because that argument is meaningless.

The 1+1=2 statements end here.

But banning consoles because they are jailbroken is not a good thing to do, not because SONY doesnt have the right to as it does but

Game disks can come with a particular identification using which they can be authenticated and PSN access should be provided to people with legit copies of the game even if they are on a jailbroken console. And online access shouldnt be given for a particular game if it is pirated. This is because the money that is generated from the sale of a particular game is utilized in the online expenditures of that game normally. This will keep everyone happy. Moreover if they are completely banned people who want to stay on jailbreak for whatever reason will have no reason to buy an original ever again as they anyway cannot go online.
 
baccilus said:
If any one I knew ever got arrested for Piracy, I would never download an illegal file again. I will probably stop playing games if I can't afford to buy them. The fact is, no normal person would BUY a thing he can GET for free with virtually ZERO risk. People don't do anything without incentives.
Now thats a ignorant thing to say. If you are corrupted, then don't expect all to be the same.
 
I agree with pranaywhiz. I'm not supporting piracy here. But, Pirating a game dosen't always mean that -1 in the sales records and neither it is stealing. Most of the people who download games from other sources will not buy the game if the game isn't there up in other sources. They just download because it is there to download. If there isn't that game out there, they will stand quite.. but they don't buy. I don't know how things are there.. but here in my town, things are the way I said. People here and in most of the towns in india.. don't know where to buy the games, some doesn't even know that there are things called Genuine games. they just go to a local DVD vendor and buy them.

And about reselling games, some publisher lodged a case in US supreme count about this reselling. Because when people resell games to stores like Gamestop, wallmart.... and when these retailers sell the game again to customers, they are actually gaining profit, and not even a penny goes to publishers.
 
^It is nice that you are agreeing with me:) but I didnt say that piracy is not stealing:hap5:

Thank You
 
@OP

i beleive their is a new hack that lets u unban ur PSN account

google it, im sure u will find something on it

:D

so much for sony's ban
 
jojothedragon said:
Now thats a ignorant thing to say. If you are corrupted, then don't expect all to be the same.
Well, I don't play games anymore. What I am talking about is the actual scenario. People are not as altruistic as you might think. What is unfortunate is that apart from there being no legal risk involved in being a pirate in India, there is no social risk either. It's a norm to be a pirate here rather than an exception. I don't know anyone who buys original games or softwares. No one. Obviously it's pathetic that things are like that, but it's the reality. And I don't think piracy will ever get socially unacceptable unless people face legal troubles for pirating stuff. That would be an incentive people will react to. There is no use going after the vendors or sources become other options will come up just as fast. Going after the end users will 10000X more effective. If people learn about even a single person they personally know who is in trouble for piracy, it will make a huge huge difference to their psyche. If they get one pirate in trouble, 100 others will turn legit for life. If people acted like the way you think they do, there would be no global warming either. Everyone would do what is right for them and others in general.
 
As per all the dudes who are saying Piracy is not stealing or cannot be compared to stealing a physical tangible device have a long way to go in life. Stealing an idea be it theoretical or implemented is just as bad. The long post above this triggered a vivid image in my life. Am sure this has happened to most of us. We come up with a real good idea at office and someone takes the credit or makes it their own. Does not ones blood boil. Now imagine the plight when a product has been created, then some one else (pirate) makes a replica and sells it as the master it was copied from. Knock-off, copy, replica, plagiarism, and stealing are all one and the same. Just because one is not facing a loss or missing an object does not negate stealing or its synonyms.

Feels like people are trying to soothe their morals from the face of guilt..!
 
I have been in ebusiness for a long time, I have my own software business, let me tell you something. You can USE piracy as a tool to build your business. Trust me, anyone who downloads a KZ3 game AND if the game is worth it for online gameplay are going to go to the store buy the damn thing.

Once I read an article somewhere that the reason authentication for games/softwares are not as strong as they potentially could be is bcs THE COMPANY DOESNT WANT IT TOO BE TOO HARD TO PIRATE IT. I am ready to bet my entire lifesavings that the JB release for PS3 spurred a sales spike for PS3. But yes I agree 80% of the new adopters would be interested in pirating and aound 40% of the old ones. But lets not deny something, the company and the publishers will stand to make more money if that offer really good gameplay. It is called Bait and switch. Bait the people to buy the console using a JB, then have enough reason for them to buy original games. Its a win-win. People have an option to try the SP mode for free while the MP comes at a price.

There is one more thing we are all missing, since the price point for has come down (to 0 :P ). People will try games from smaller/unheard of companies which they normally wouldnt. This helps them build their business.

I am not saying piracy is the right thing to do. BUT there is too much crap out there for every person to buy every original game they want. I personally buy games that are worth it. I have always supported the Halflife franchise, COD, Starcraft franchises etc. WHY? bcs they offer something substantiaal for the money you couch up. If I am not going to spend $50 on some crappy PC port to PS3, I would rather save it for a rainy day. As long as people are going to sell stuff, others are going to try and steal them. Beat them or join them. Sony thought this was the perfect moment to JOIN them to beat the crap out of its competition.

Just my 2c, just saying that piracy is not the end of the everything good in people and this is not an ideal world.
 
^ Exactly the point I was thinking to make. the bait and sales part.

PS2 made a premium in sales for years even after it was modded. So modding = no/less sales is not the point here. The real issue are the cheats which the CFW enabled. Those have rendered accessing MP online useless. Who wants to play an online FPS where u can be fragged every second by a noob using cheats? If Sony wants to stop that then so be it. It is better than the instant ban on XBL.

That being said, Sony can't really expect twitter/youtube to reveal the personal info on people who posted the key or re-tweeted/commented on it. It is just a scare tactic and Sony might as well give it up. This wont win them any brownie points. If they persist, God knows what we will have next......Justin Beiber asking youtube/twitter account info on all accounts who are making fun of him (read defamation suit?)
That being said..Guys please let this thread die..piracy/modding is as thorny issue as Xbox30 vs PS3.
 
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