My initial impressions of ultimate ears TF10
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^^ but you are alone at admitting it ....lol
i wont give up till i find the difference between Flac and Mp3(320)
yeah it looks great ...but its not practical .....i wont ever dream of putting that great looking, sober box in my jeans pocket (...it will get scratched)!
i wont give up till i find the difference between Flac and Mp3(320)
malhotraraul said:
yeah it looks great ...but its not practical .....i wont ever dream of putting that great looking, sober box in my jeans pocket (...it will get scratched)!
esanthosh
Herald
^ Sometimes it's better to be ordinary. I typically listen to FLAC when using speakers and a mix of 320kbps / FLAC / VBR / 192kbps when using DAP/PMP. If I am able to hear the differences very clearly, then the following things will happen in order:
I'd rather not find the "flaws" :no:
- No matter how much I want to enjoy music, I will keep observing "flaws".
- That necessitates changing the entire library into FLACs.
- No space on PMP. Buy something better with 32/64 GB capacity and an expansion slot. Even better is to dump the PMP route since they can do only so much. Better stick to PC based setup?
- Mind is at rest. It starts thinking ... what about the FLACs I did not rip myself? Therefore for each album, buy back original CDs, carefully rip them using EAC. Listen and compare CDs and FLACs to ensure nothing is missing.
- But, somethings wrong. CDP has it's own signature, sound card has it's own signature. How do I compare? So, buy an expensive DAC that can work great irrespective of the source to produce a neutral, analytical signature. A separate headphone amp and a high-end Headphone would be necessary to find any minor flaws that are not visible with budget setups.
- Changing inter-connects and Headphone cables to extract the last mile of performance becomes necessary.
I'd rather not find the "flaws" :no:
^ lol that happens....but be bold..... sell everything and buy a JH16 + JH3a
...at least i for one am sure that my next upgrade will be ...( even if it comes in 5 years )..JH16/ HD800 / next AKG upgrade K1000+ and a $ 5000 balanced amp from RSA
with an exception of SM3 ( if i get a good deal)
...at least i for one am sure that my next upgrade will be ...( even if it comes in 5 years )..JH16/ HD800 / next AKG upgrade K1000+ and a $ 5000 balanced amp from RSA
with an exception of SM3 ( if i get a good deal)
Vasishta.Sushant
Galvanizer
Totally agree. I just want to remain contented with my udac and re0.
Will probably by some full size phones next year.
Will probably by some full size phones next year.
Okay, im too lazy to read the whole thread so Im just going to ask you , how better they are from the S4 ? I have the S4 and im madly in love with the sound they give, esp the impactfull bass and comfort. Since i saved some money by not buying an amp and cans I might want to buy better iems ! Please suggest 
S4 bass was something very special for me ....these improve upon the bass ..in every way ...
comfort wise ....i used to use the smallest tip with the S4 and insert them in the ear -canals deep inside then only( them ONLY) did i get the S4 bass i loved .....with these ..that quality is improved upon by simply placing them in the ear ..( though i am using the comply tips ) ..so...i'd say ..if the fit is right then they are comfortable
comfort wise ....i used to use the smallest tip with the S4 and insert them in the ear -canals deep inside then only( them ONLY) did i get the S4 bass i loved .....with these ..that quality is improved upon by simply placing them in the ear ..( though i am using the comply tips ) ..so...i'd say ..if the fit is right then they are comfortable
esanthosh
Herald
strategy said:
I know it's not nice to answer a lighter vein comment with a serious reply. But, ....
I'm thinking why do I have all these headphones, IEMs, portable players, Speakers, amps, dacs, CDs all around me? What's the purpose? Is it seriously for listening to music? Or do I feel good about myself having 10 IEMs, 5 Headphones and 3 top-notch headphone amps? Is this a way of expressing "mine is bigger than yours"? Is it just curiosity or is it just an ego trip?
In my case, it started off with a EP-630, bought a S9 & PX-80. If I had stopped there and never found Head-fi, I'd have been just fine. I'd have been happy with "better than ear buds" EP-630 and "rolled off at both ends" PX-80. However, I have a small collection now whatever you take - uDAC, D1 in DAC, 5-6 IEMs, 3-4 Headphones. Sure, they all have variety and helped me understand at least the basics of sound description. But beyond that, am I actually enjoying music? Do I spend 4 hrs a day on a weekend listening to music or am I concentrating on how the IEM sounds or looking for "that" thing in my chain which will make it sound better? I find myself constantly switching IEMs / Headphones because I feel "this song will sound better in that" or "Let's see how this sounds in that IEM" or "It's been a long time since I've tried it. So, let's try" ..... :ashamed:
Don't worry! I will still be getting a JH13 and even a (few more?
) universals or headphones. But, this is what I was introspecting this evening and just thought of sharing.Sorry for going OT. Let's back to the business of making our wallets thinner.
First, hats off Santosh, for putting in you honest views/opinions. Sometimes we forget we not only need to share knowledge but views too!
And I partially agree with you on this. I don't consider this OT. See it this way. Somebody having 1-2K IEM and planning to get TF10 would know your opinion that one doesn't need to spend thousands to enjoy music. Enjoying music might not have much to do with how costlier your audio setup is.
It's really difficult to resist buying something, out of curiosity, when one has got money. That's really a problem with me, not restricted to audio. I too have bought a few IEMs just out of curiosity.
Rest of the times, I got IEMs trying to search for "the sound signature" I am happy with, only to realize that I need multiple IEMs to enjoy my music. Believe me, when I hear a song, I know, which IEM would be better with it. Except RE2, I don't have any IEM with which I enjoy all my music. Different kinds of music would require different kinds of IEMs and that's what I am searching for, a few IEMs/headphones atlast I would be happy with. Perhaps might end up with a pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones. And to be honest, dac+amp wasa never on my plan. I did resist buying that. But for great vocals(which is "the most important" concern for me) I was suggested ortho headphones and which need a decent amp. Hopefully with one ortho and another neutral headphone and my search would be over.
Something similar, I do, with technical books. I own too many technical books, so many that I am ashamed of telling the number. I have never understood any topic from a single book(call me dumb if you want to) and ended up buying multiple books on every topic, of which only 2-3 would be good. Rest need to be thrown away. But there's no way to know "those 2-3 books" without getting 8-10 books.
I hope I make some sense.
And isn't some critical listening, comparing IEMs fun too? I enjoy food, reading books, watching movies and listening to music. Might enjoy comparing IEMs too. Enjoying music and enjoying comparing music don't need to be mutually exclusive!
And I partially agree with you on this. I don't consider this OT. See it this way. Somebody having 1-2K IEM and planning to get TF10 would know your opinion that one doesn't need to spend thousands to enjoy music. Enjoying music might not have much to do with how costlier your audio setup is.
It's really difficult to resist buying something, out of curiosity, when one has got money. That's really a problem with me, not restricted to audio. I too have bought a few IEMs just out of curiosity.
Rest of the times, I got IEMs trying to search for "the sound signature" I am happy with, only to realize that I need multiple IEMs to enjoy my music. Believe me, when I hear a song, I know, which IEM would be better with it. Except RE2, I don't have any IEM with which I enjoy all my music. Different kinds of music would require different kinds of IEMs and that's what I am searching for, a few IEMs/headphones atlast I would be happy with. Perhaps might end up with a pair of IEMs and a pair of headphones. And to be honest, dac+amp wasa never on my plan. I did resist buying that. But for great vocals(which is "the most important" concern for me) I was suggested ortho headphones and which need a decent amp. Hopefully with one ortho and another neutral headphone and my search would be over.
Something similar, I do, with technical books. I own too many technical books, so many that I am ashamed of telling the number. I have never understood any topic from a single book(call me dumb if you want to) and ended up buying multiple books on every topic, of which only 2-3 would be good. Rest need to be thrown away. But there's no way to know "those 2-3 books" without getting 8-10 books.
I hope I make some sense.And isn't some critical listening, comparing IEMs fun too? I enjoy food, reading books, watching movies and listening to music. Might enjoy comparing IEMs too. Enjoying music and enjoying comparing music don't need to be mutually exclusive!
esanthosh
Herald
^ I agree, haraakiri. Comparing signatures can be real fun.
But, it's just a different kind of enjoyment. If I was left with PX-80, I might have listened more to music. After all, I enjoyed my music thoroughly with Creative's stock buds for 2 long years. To answer your question, If I had not bought them all and still left with only S9 + PX-80, I'd saved plenty of money and would have found a couple more bands or tried two different genres of music I did not have exposure to. I still do that, but most of my spare time gets lost in swapping IEMs than finding new music. But, innocence is already lost, can't go back to good ol' days. Once you've tasted good sound, you cannot return back to the "old sound"
I like diversity in a way. I see 1920's silent movies to latest films across genres. I see horror movies, then jump into Ingmar Bergman. I guess that unstable 'variety taste disorder' caught me here too.
It's the curiosity that got me into building up a collection. With not too many CanJams and sorrounded by people who think Apple ear buds are the greatest things to listen to music, I had to resort to spending quite a bit to quench my curiosity.
While we are on the topic, let me analyze why I got some of the things
PX-80 : Frankly, no research. I was browsing abi (while researching for a player to upgrade from Creative Zen V+) and came across PX-100. In "those" days, the very thought of spending Rs. 2K for a Headphone seemed "too much" for me. I mean why would someone spend 2K for a Headphone? But then I thought - I am not crazy like "other people". I am going to settle for life with these. I mean 1,700 for a Headphone? Really?
EP-630 : I bought it because I needed to test whether I can insert IEMs into my ear without hurting myself badly. I did not want to spend a fortune either.
RE-0 : My fist real IEM. I read some reviews on Head-fi. The "usual suspect" Faheem is the main culprit again. I found that he was "expecting" RE-0 from his signature in Head-fi, asked him about it and he said he's getting it from Lynx. The prospect of getting a top tier IEM from within India excited me. So, I went ahead and placed the order.
AD-700 : What's a wide sound stage?
MS1i : What's "Grado signature"?
Hippo VB : What would "plenty" of bass sound like?
Like you, I find that I can never live with only one type of sound due to the kind of genres I listen to. What fits one sounds awful with another. Sometimes, I feel like dissecting each thing into n pieces and analyzing, sometimes I don't want to be bothered at all - I just need something fun, sometimes I need that extra ooze of bass to enjoy.
BTW, I am still interested in trying out, but not necessarily in buying these IEMs -> JH16, JH13, RE-252, TF10, UM3X, SM3, HJE-900, M2. In Headphones -> K70X, HD600, HD650, HD800, LCD-2. Wonder where will it end?
But, it's just a different kind of enjoyment. If I was left with PX-80, I might have listened more to music. After all, I enjoyed my music thoroughly with Creative's stock buds for 2 long years. To answer your question, If I had not bought them all and still left with only S9 + PX-80, I'd saved plenty of money and would have found a couple more bands or tried two different genres of music I did not have exposure to. I still do that, but most of my spare time gets lost in swapping IEMs than finding new music. But, innocence is already lost, can't go back to good ol' days. Once you've tasted good sound, you cannot return back to the "old sound"
I like diversity in a way. I see 1920's silent movies to latest films across genres. I see horror movies, then jump into Ingmar Bergman. I guess that unstable 'variety taste disorder' caught me here too.
It's the curiosity that got me into building up a collection. With not too many CanJams and sorrounded by people who think Apple ear buds are the greatest things to listen to music, I had to resort to spending quite a bit to quench my curiosity.
While we are on the topic, let me analyze why I got some of the things
PX-80 : Frankly, no research. I was browsing abi (while researching for a player to upgrade from Creative Zen V+) and came across PX-100. In "those" days, the very thought of spending Rs. 2K for a Headphone seemed "too much" for me. I mean why would someone spend 2K for a Headphone? But then I thought - I am not crazy like "other people". I am going to settle for life with these. I mean 1,700 for a Headphone? Really?
EP-630 : I bought it because I needed to test whether I can insert IEMs into my ear without hurting myself badly. I did not want to spend a fortune either.
RE-0 : My fist real IEM. I read some reviews on Head-fi. The "usual suspect" Faheem is the main culprit again
. I found that he was "expecting" RE-0 from his signature in Head-fi, asked him about it and he said he's getting it from Lynx. The prospect of getting a top tier IEM from within India excited me. So, I went ahead and placed the order.AD-700 : What's a wide sound stage?
MS1i : What's "Grado signature"?
Hippo VB : What would "plenty" of bass sound like?
Like you, I find that I can never live with only one type of sound due to the kind of genres I listen to. What fits one sounds awful with another. Sometimes, I feel like dissecting each thing into n pieces and analyzing, sometimes I don't want to be bothered at all - I just need something fun, sometimes I need that extra ooze of bass to enjoy.
BTW, I am still interested in trying out, but not necessarily in buying these IEMs -> JH16, JH13, RE-252, TF10, UM3X, SM3, HJE-900, M2. In Headphones -> K70X, HD600, HD650, HD800, LCD-2. Wonder where will it end?
toxicdrift
Herald
i was in a similar situation guys, there was a time when i literally had my headphones on 24/7.. and i was alot more into music then i am right now, i also agree with faheem that i enjoyed my music alot more with low end gear then high end.. i usually always upgraded when one pair died off though and never went all crazy trying everything.. coz thats what makes sense to me.. as i grew older and after buying my last setup i got really busy with work and i realised i dont even listen to my setup as much as i thought i would.. so sold both my headphones and iems off (ultrasone hfi780 + ibassod2+boa and tf10vi's). now im just gonna buy one good iem / headphone setup n STOP lol.. im getting too old for this. plus head fi is just a bad pit that will make your pockets run dry!!!
headgear ive owned - sony xb100/sony mdr7506/senn201/jvc700/ultrasone780
iems - mylarone x3/x3i/vmoda-bassfreq/jvcmarshmallows/tf10vi/
demo'd alot more then the above lot.. but now i know what sorta sound i want and am not distracted easily. i just feel u end up loosing alot of money by trial n error. and that there is no point buying the next best thing thats out there... the best way is to demo what u want and then buy it.. reviews too can be subjective so always take em with a pinch of salt. do realise that its alot harder to earn money then to spend it.. i might sound negative to some but i guess im just @ a stage where im debating with wants vs needs. so yes u could own 10+iem setups or 50 cans.. but do u really need em and use them.. just ask ur question that before making ur next mad purchase, deep down u might already know the answer
headgear ive owned - sony xb100/sony mdr7506/senn201/jvc700/ultrasone780
iems - mylarone x3/x3i/vmoda-bassfreq/jvcmarshmallows/tf10vi/
demo'd alot more then the above lot.. but now i know what sorta sound i want and am not distracted easily. i just feel u end up loosing alot of money by trial n error. and that there is no point buying the next best thing thats out there... the best way is to demo what u want and then buy it.. reviews too can be subjective so always take em with a pinch of salt. do realise that its alot harder to earn money then to spend it.. i might sound negative to some but i guess im just @ a stage where im debating with wants vs needs. so yes u could own 10+iem setups or 50 cans.. but do u really need em and use them.. just ask ur question that before making ur next mad purchase, deep down u might already know the answer
hats off sir
and i was serious when i asked you to get a JH16 ( though not very serious about getting it by selling all your stuff....it was just a method of saying save up like crazy)
for me i am a little different.
i always do a extensive research when i buy a product.... i thus i tend to go for the best in the market ( ...don't laugh) ....and i do save up like crazy
this all started with my interest in gaming ... ... i refused to play halo 3( /mass effect/ many good games ) without a good speaker set up so ( after listening to the background score in the first few missions), thus i saved up and i got the z5500 ....i was satisfied .. ( not for long)
then i started looking for reviews for better speakers .....then it came to me that i should buy a headphone /earphone for much better sound.
the only international critic i knew ( that did reviews for the all electronic products ) was CNET...looked up in that and was about to sell my z5500 to buy a bose quitcomfort 3 NI headphone.( i simply couldn't buy them without selling z5500)
then i clicked a tab for best headphones tab on the right ......and what i saw startled me ....a $79 IEM above a $999 iem(UE 10 pro) ....below which were some headphones also ...so i read the review for S4 and mind you ...it again startled me ...they said they preferred s4 to their ...$250 iem !!
then followed days of search to find ways of getting the S4 ...really no distributors in india.....then to my luck 3 months after klipsch products came to india. immediately i bought them, Image S4 the "best headphone in the WORLD"!!!(is what i thought then)
Grados did appeal to me but import turned me down....and they are never available at discounted price....never..trust me i have looked for about 12 months for grados!
some songs did sound ...way better on my s4 than z5500 ..!!...i could not hold back now.....now was the time for the best .....of the best ....best in full sized headphone .....by now i knew head fi well , but still went to cnet, for they had a table ...." best full sized headphone " ....1.HD800 , 2. Grado PS100, Ultrastone .....WTF >$1000 ...then came 5. AKG K702 ....MRP -$569 at amazon ...269!!!
read the review....wide sound stage....speaker like.....superb sound....checked Head-fi.....great....no brainer ...bought them ....via KMD...took 2 months for import.but now i was finally complete... now i very much like my K702...great soundstage....awesome detail ( its this headphone that urges me to get re0 )
( this was 6 months back) after that ...sold my ipod touch ....to buy sflo ....preordered hm-602 ( you see i cant resist good offers ...VFM offers) and TF10
and i was serious when i asked you to get a JH16 ( though not very serious about getting it by selling all your stuff....it was just a method of saying save up like crazy)
for me i am a little different.
i always do a extensive research when i buy a product.... i thus i tend to go for the best in the market ( ...don't laugh) ....and i do save up like crazy
this all started with my interest in gaming ... ... i refused to play halo 3( /mass effect/ many good games ) without a good speaker set up so ( after listening to the background score in the first few missions), thus i saved up and i got the z5500 ....i was satisfied .. ( not for long)
then i started looking for reviews for better speakers .....then it came to me that i should buy a headphone /earphone for much better sound.
the only international critic i knew ( that did reviews for the all electronic products ) was CNET...looked up in that and was about to sell my z5500 to buy a bose quitcomfort 3 NI headphone.( i simply couldn't buy them without selling z5500)
then i clicked a tab for best headphones tab on the right ......and what i saw startled me ....a $79 IEM above a $999 iem(UE 10 pro) ....below which were some headphones also ...so i read the review for S4 and mind you ...it again startled me ...they said they preferred s4 to their ...$250 iem !!
then followed days of search to find ways of getting the S4 ...really no distributors in india.....then to my luck 3 months after klipsch products came to india. immediately i bought them, Image S4 the "best headphone in the WORLD"!!!(is what i thought then)
Grados did appeal to me but import turned me down....and they are never available at discounted price....never..trust me i have looked for about 12 months for grados!
some songs did sound ...way better on my s4 than z5500 ..!!...i could not hold back now.....now was the time for the best .....of the best ....best in full sized headphone .....by now i knew head fi well , but still went to cnet, for they had a table ...." best full sized headphone " ....1.HD800 , 2. Grado PS100, Ultrastone .....WTF >$1000 ...then came 5. AKG K702 ....MRP -$569 at amazon ...269!!!
read the review....wide sound stage....speaker like.....superb sound....checked Head-fi.....great....no brainer ...bought them ....via KMD...took 2 months for import.but now i was finally complete... now i very much like my K702...great soundstage....awesome detail ( its this headphone that urges me to get re0 )
( this was 6 months back) after that ...sold my ipod touch ....to buy sflo ....preordered hm-602 ( you see i cant resist good offers ...VFM offers) and TF10
esanthosh
Herald
toxicdrift said:
This was my search and not until I bought a lot of cans and IEMs, I could figure out exactly what and how I want my music. But, it's a bit complicated as I said - I need 2-3 different signatures to do justice to the music.
toxicdrift said:the best way is to demo what u want and then buy it.. reviews too can be subjective so always take em with a pinch of salt. do realise that its alot harder to earn money then to spend it.. i might sound negative to some but i guess im just @ a stage where im debating with wants vs needs. so yes u could own 10+iem setups or 50 cans.. but do u really need em and use them.. just ask ur question that before making ur next mad purchase, deep down u might already know the answer
The question is - how do you demo? That's always been my problem. If someone has the opportunity to demo, then by all means, it's 10X better than reading reviews to know the sound signature.
Let's say - earning a thousand is always many times harder than spending a ten thousand. Reviews are subjective - very true. However, I found a few on Head-fi who like their music exactly the way I do. And apart from reading reviews, I also get the specifics of sound signature and clear my doubts via PM. I also PM several others who use that IEM before pulling the trigger on them. Some of them are really nice folks!
Personally, owning 3-4 IEMs makes perfect sense for me. I am never in the same mood, never try the same genre and not the same IEM all the time. However, for most people owning ONE IEM or a headphone that suits their tastes is more than enough - an all rounder of sorts. It does not even need to be a top-end one. As Benny said in a recent post, upgrades past budget IEMs are horizontal not vertical.
Secondly, if you view Headphones and IEMs in isolation, they seem pricey. But, if one has a speaker setup, it's easier to appreciate spending less in headphones and IEMs to gain a whole new signature. Not always easy in speaker world. In a speaker setup, to steal words from a PM I got long back, every 50K you spend makes a difference. Top of the line customs can be had for that money, a used HD800 if lucky enough.
@strategy,
I am saving up for JH13 actually (as I mentioned in Superfrag's JH-5 thread). Times are indeed interesting on the customs front - Weston ES5 is hyped to be better than JH13, UE Reference is out. So, while saving up, I can have a fair idea of the alternatives too.
I'm happy that you are in the habit of planning, saving and spending. That always helps
toxicdrift
Herald
yea guess ive been lucky enough for my job to take me places where i have access to headfi that i want to try .. but i know what ur sayin.. at the end if u can afford the gear, then go for it. reviews r always helpful and we all ask friends n fellow users on what to jump on next. its always easy to guide a friend then guide our own self lol.. u check and double check every review/pm and detail and get more confused.. life's tough for the indian headfier. but its good to see a change, more n more people gettin into it and spreading the knowledge. itll help new people who want to get better gear aswell. good luck on the customs! keep me updated bro
esanthosh said:Once you've tasted good sound, you cannot return back to the "old sound"
I like diversity in a way. I see 1920's silent movies to latest films across genres. I see horror movies, then jump into Ingmar Bergman. I guess that unstable 'variety taste disorder' caught me here too.
1,700 for a Headphone? Really?
RE-0 : My fist real IEM. I read some reviews on Head-fi. The "usual suspect" Faheem is the main culprit again
BTW, I am still interested in trying out,... Wonder where will it end?
I too have gone through these. So many stories are similar.
Perhaps Mumbai is a better place to be in, you have quiet a few TE head-fiers there.
esanthosh
Herald
toxicdrift said:u check and double check every review/pm and detail and get more confused.. life's tough for the indian headfier. but its good to see a change, more n more people gettin into it and spreading the knowledge. itll help new people who want to get better gear aswell. good luck on the customs! keep me updated bro
Yep! That's an issue. No matter how much you read, the end result can be different
Initially, my struggle was largely due to the fact that I did not know what the terms meant. Now, due to the variety of signatures at my disposal, I am able to "get" what it could sound like. I always look for negatives first. See if the negative factors are going to bother me personally. I only proceed after that. Pretty much 80% of the reviews are positive. So, it's a tough job.
That's why I say it's better to find someone who has a similar taste in sound signature. For me, I follow opposites - ljokerl has a similar taste to mine, so I attach greater weight to his views (esp since he's tried 102 and I - 5
). dfkt has a different taste compared to mine. However, dfkt is by and large honest about what he feels. So, I read both reviews (wherever possible) and come to a conclusion. For haraakiri, I think mark2410 has a higher weight on his scale. @haraakiri,
Sadly, yes! Mumbai Head-fi-ers are better off than most. But, things are getting better - there are more TE-ians with better headphones and IEMs these days, so in the coming days, we need not travel across the length of the country to try out
I might be reading between the lines but you do feel isolation and comfort can be problem for some with the TFT ? Thats my only apprehension, I could never get used to iems .Bought about 5 pairs, just could not get them into my tiny ears comfortably UNTILL i got he S4.Now my primary concern is that most of the iems dont fit me so whats the point upgrading.I love the way the S4 sounds, the bass is amazing and clear, the soundstage is amazing, if I want to go for something up the ladderhow am I know if they will gfit me rightstrategy said:
Do the comply fit the S4 ? I want to try that option !- Status