http://translate.google.co.in/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ourdev.cn%2Fbbs%2Fbbs_content_all.jsp%3Fbbs_sn%3D4306821
Santosh should explain it to use then.
Santosh should explain it to use then.
Need Help importing HiFiMAM HM-602
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esanthosh
Herald
^ In short, this is what I gathered after eliminating all the rices cooked in translation.
Somebody paid for HM-801, got impressed by the sound quality, opened it up and found that it uses cheap components in headphone out section and even fake components. When he put up photos on the forum, they were asked to be removed promising that things will be fixed. But, they weren't even in the second "fixed" sample. After finding more cheap / fake components in it, the reviewer was threatened that he will be killed.
Most other things went over my head due to poor translation. That link was from a head-fi thread posted here: How about Hifiman's DMP? - Head-Fi.org Community
Somebody paid for HM-801, got impressed by the sound quality, opened it up and found that it uses cheap components in headphone out section and even fake components. When he put up photos on the forum, they were asked to be removed promising that things will be fixed. But, they weren't even in the second "fixed" sample. After finding more cheap / fake components in it, the reviewer was threatened that he will be killed.
Most other things went over my head due to poor translation. That link was from a head-fi thread posted here: How about Hifiman's DMP? - Head-Fi.org Community
Vasishta.Sushant
Galvanizer
This looks interesting. Couldn't open them up while in the office but will be reading about them tonight. Talk about shoddy practices
esanthosh
Herald
Let's cook the rice. I own RE0 and will probably buy another one of their high-end IEMs in the future. Considering that RE-252 was on my radar for a long time, I considered buying RE-262 and was tempted a bit to pre-order HM-602 batch 2 - just for RE-262. But, as I said before, I don't generally believe in special "audiophile players". While searching for impressions of RE-262, I came across the head-fi thread mentioned above.
As far as I understand, erji.net and ourdev.cn are two forums. erji.net is where we get first reports about HiFiman products.
The poster from ourdev.cn, Mok is an admin there. Nankai is from Head-Direct. Since there seems to be too much going on, we do not know which side is right. But, I'll just translate as I find this interesting.....
Mok claims....
Mok bought a HM-801 with his own money (5200 Yuan). He was impressed with the SQ. He seems to be a knowledgeable / DIY person. So, he opens up the player and examines it. He finds that the "electroplating trapping" :huh: was not up-to the mark. Curious, he examined the amp's board. Such good SQ, such poor components? So, the dual DACs are not from the same lot - meaning they are not matched?
At this point, Nankai calls at 2 AM to remove the circuit board pictures. He promises that he'll fix things and send another 801 for disassembling and photos. The photos are taken off the forum.
In the "improved" HM-801, he finds that two of the transistors on the headphone board are obviously fakes. Concerned, he called up Nankai. On his promise, he proceeds to publish the photos with "defective transistors, which will be fixed" and marks them for "private use within the forum only. Distribution is prohibited" labels. Nankai also prohibits shooting the opamp after the DAC. Upon repeated questioning, Nankai admits that he uses a cheap LM833 low-pass filter after the 1704 and if found, his competitors will use the same cheap opamp in their products, there by losing the cost advantage.
At this point, things turn a little nasty. As per Mok, Nankai calls him at 2 AM whenever he publishes a disassembled photo and threatens him. He has threatened to find some one to kill him in QQ Chat session (Screen shot in that thread). He goes on to post some chat sessions where Nankai says he can replace fake transistors with genuine refurbished ones for the photo shoot.
Let's see what HiFiMan claims
Here are Mo's refutes to that....
More things are there. But, I am tired and I guess this much "rice" politics is enough for the day. Seems to be a clash of personalities here.
But, interesting things about fake transistor, cheap opamp etc., Like always, we may not know the truth at all.
As far as I understand, erji.net and ourdev.cn are two forums. erji.net is where we get first reports about HiFiman products.
The poster from ourdev.cn, Mok is an admin there. Nankai is from Head-Direct. Since there seems to be too much going on, we do not know which side is right. But, I'll just translate as I find this interesting.....
Mok claims....
Mok bought a HM-801 with his own money (5200 Yuan). He was impressed with the SQ. He seems to be a knowledgeable / DIY person. So, he opens up the player and examines it. He finds that the "electroplating trapping" :huh: was not up-to the mark. Curious, he examined the amp's board. Such good SQ, such poor components? So, the dual DACs are not from the same lot - meaning they are not matched?
At this point, Nankai calls at 2 AM to remove the circuit board pictures. He promises that he'll fix things and send another 801 for disassembling and photos. The photos are taken off the forum.
In the "improved" HM-801, he finds that two of the transistors on the headphone board are obviously fakes. Concerned, he called up Nankai. On his promise, he proceeds to publish the photos with "defective transistors, which will be fixed" and marks them for "private use within the forum only. Distribution is prohibited" labels. Nankai also prohibits shooting the opamp after the DAC. Upon repeated questioning, Nankai admits that he uses a cheap LM833 low-pass filter after the 1704 and if found, his competitors will use the same cheap opamp in their products, there by losing the cost advantage.
At this point, things turn a little nasty. As per Mok, Nankai calls him at 2 AM whenever he publishes a disassembled photo and threatens him. He has threatened to find some one to kill him in QQ Chat session (Screen shot in that thread). He goes on to post some chat sessions where Nankai says he can replace fake transistors with genuine refurbished ones for the photo shoot.
Let's see what HiFiMan claims
- Mr. Mok ordered a HM-801. But due to relocation of factories, a test version was sent to him by mistake. It can be verified by the label on the PCB, which reads "W930-TV5.0", TV stands for Test version.
- Mok resorted to extortion and coercion even after we offered to replace his demo version with a final product. He wanted him to be appointed as distributor of HiFiMan products to profit from them. He also wanted Mr. Nankai to be associated with his own forum to gain from Nankai's reputation. To save ourselves, we verbally agreed to these demands.
- Mo did not disassemble our second unit. His claims of fake transistor are indeed from our test sample unit. We have evidence to prove it, which will be produced as and when legally required. He has published these photos to bring disrepute to the Hifiman brand. Authorities can inspect the quality of the said transistor in our production versions.
- Mo has imported Sony D50 players :huh: and has offered to sell an upgraded version. He is trying to clone the technology in our player for his commercial interests.
- Mok would stalk and repeatedly called Nankai in the middle of the night while in the US. Nankai asked him to be left alone and not spoil his rest. Due to his emotional state, Nankai used a colloquial Xuzhou dialect expression that meant "Don't mess with me, I'll kill you", which Mok misinterpreted and considered as an assassination attempt. He also bought Baidu search engine terms for "Nankai Rice", so that the claims of threat on his site would be displayed second in the results.
Here are Mo's refutes to that....
- I was not part of the testing group. Like everybody else, I paid 5200 Yuans and waited a month to get the player. Only upon opening the player, I could see the TV5.0 label. Imagine the case of ordinary users who would never do such things.
- It was Nankai who offered me another unit for re-shooting the pictures. We are an electronics forum and internals are what we are interested in.
- The discussion to appoint as agents was verbal and non-committal. Nankai said that we have to pay the amount in cash up front and the profits won't be high. If I was to be appointed as agent of the product, wouldn't it be simple for me to just say that there's no problem with the player? Nankai seems to be happy to accept becoming moderator of our forum from the chat session published below... But he was totally inactive and did not even get involved in discussions regarding HiFiMan. Eventually, we decided to remove him as a moderator.
- In our forum, majority of the users have been able to detect the transistors as fake. I still have the unit in hand as evidence. Authorities can verify that it has not been tampered with to plant false evidence. If Nankai was so genuine, why didn't he allow me to shoot the Opamp section, which is one of the important portions of the player?
- We did not import D50 players in bulk quantity. We bought just two players from Jingdong Mall. I am ready to show the invoice. PCM1704 is in circulation for a decade and most PCB layouts can look similar. I will publish details of the upgrade I plan and also compare it with 801 to prove that I am not copying from HM-801.
- I am not the stalker, I am just angry. Proof of the death threat is in the screenshot of the chat session shown.....Our site is popular enough to appear on top of Baidu results.
More things are there. But, I am tired and I guess this much "rice" politics is enough for the day. Seems to be a clash of personalities here.
But, interesting things about fake transistor, cheap opamp etc., Like always, we may not know the truth at all
.i came to audio zone ....and hay ....4 pages in this thread....WHAT? ...Now i see ....this is interesting ....(but the honour must go to google translate)
I was not expecting apple quality build with the HM-602...but certainly not this bad build ( the initial photos 801 look really bad)
I hope the build of HM-602 is better .
But DAC chip the phillips .......is a discontinued chip thats no longer in production so...they are indeed using old desoldered component....but its mentioned clearly on the Headdirect website. BUt the other construction flaws given in the link are indeed worth noticing.
BUT ...i have paid for them ......i have an year warranty....if they go bad after that ....thats my unluck. .... i knew form the start that its build will be not very good ...but i paid (and care) for the sound it will provide ...and from wrap 602/801 comparison , and some other thereads ...it seems to be delivering. ....eagerlY WAITING
<looking for the inside photos of HM-602 on goolgle>
I was not expecting apple quality build with the HM-602...but certainly not this bad build ( the initial photos 801 look really bad)
I hope the build of HM-602 is better .
But DAC chip the phillips .......is a discontinued chip thats no longer in production so...they are indeed using old desoldered component....but its mentioned clearly on the Headdirect website. BUt the other construction flaws given in the link are indeed worth noticing.
BUT ...i have paid for them ......i have an year warranty....if they go bad after that ....thats my unluck. .... i knew form the start that its build will be not very good ...but i paid (and care) for the sound it will provide ...and from wrap 602/801 comparison , and some other thereads ...it seems to be delivering. ....eagerlY WAITING
<looking for the inside photos of HM-602 on goolgle>
esanthosh
Herald
TDA1543 is used in many NOS DACs, like this one - DDDAC 2000.
While I get the feeling that Hifiman could be at fault here, we don't know who Mo is and what his intentions are. But, these things are indeed serious. You don't pay $800 for a player with fake parts, cheaper components and even refurbished genuine components.
However, don't lose heart yet. Even in that page, Mo says 801 sounded better than his iPod. So, there will be some SQ.
While I get the feeling that Hifiman could be at fault here, we don't know who Mo is and what his intentions are. But, these things are indeed serious. You don't pay $800 for a player with fake parts, cheaper components and even refurbished genuine components.
However, don't lose heart yet. Even in that page, Mo says 801 sounded better than his iPod. So, there will be some SQ.
Well,
I Will Talk froma point of view of a chip level technician .different people in electronics use a different ways of doing things .In my view no one in Headdirect is a engineer ,They are getting all of this outsourced IMHO Only .As once upon a time frame they were just dealers of some brands and then came out with iems etc.The point here is that they are selling what they are getting and in my view point when they find a issue they report back to the developing team .Who in turn rectify the issue and send to production factory And this will continue until no more issues are found .The built quality would be exactly what the manufacturing company would give to headdirect and could and could not be Good/Bad .Soldering Quality of Many Of These products are Useless IMHO .Resoldering The Board Should Make The Product Perform even better .I have Seen this with one product i sell i will not name it .Now the question of fake components ,Well this funda does not exist and fake component here means a cross compatiable with same/better or worst specification .I hope this helps
I Will Talk froma point of view of a chip level technician .different people in electronics use a different ways of doing things .In my view no one in Headdirect is a engineer ,They are getting all of this outsourced IMHO Only .As once upon a time frame they were just dealers of some brands and then came out with iems etc.The point here is that they are selling what they are getting and in my view point when they find a issue they report back to the developing team .Who in turn rectify the issue and send to production factory And this will continue until no more issues are found .The built quality would be exactly what the manufacturing company would give to headdirect and could and could not be Good/Bad .Soldering Quality of Many Of These products are Useless IMHO .Resoldering The Board Should Make The Product Perform even better .I have Seen this with one product i sell i will not name it .Now the question of fake components ,Well this funda does not exist and fake component here means a cross compatiable with same/better or worst specification .I hope this helps
Oh ....BTW HEADPONIA is in love with HM602 ( and HM-801 ....... ofcourse)
and a comparison b/w DAPs ( HM801/602, QLS QA350, ibasso setup)
and in the process i found a picture showing the insides of HM-602....could have been better but not bad also.
and a comparison b/w DAPs ( HM801/602, QLS QA350, ibasso setup)
and in the process i found a picture showing the insides of HM-602....could have been better but not bad also.
WEllstrategy said:Oh ....BTW HEADPONIA is in love with HM602 ( and HM-801 ....... ofcourse)
and a comparison b/w DAPs ( HM801/602, QLS QA350, ibasso setup)
and in the process i found a picture showing the insides of HM-602....could have been better but not bad also.
Very Bad soldering Damn .OK Other Then Sflo2 ,the Hm602 and The Hm801 ,What Other Other hifi Grade Daps Are There .Leave The Cowon And Sansa;s Out .Hell They could Do Wave soldering In Thru Holed Components And Do a Proper soldering Elsewhere .Once i Get Mine i Am Gonna Rip Them Open And Redo This and Possibly Post Here lol
^^ The ICs really have been soidered badly....bases could have been used.
for Hifigrade DAPs ....there's one comming from little dot @~600
a good looking one( retro look) called colorfly ...@700 ...with coax in/out, 1/4" jack
QLS 350 ...for digital out (spdif....both optical and coax) ...its amp is not good though @200
JH3A @~1700 ...(with JH16/13 included) .....these drive onlt the JH16/13 ...no other headphone...exclusively made for JH13/16 and vice-versa
for Hifigrade DAPs ....there's one comming from little dot @~600
a good looking one( retro look) called colorfly ...@700 ...with coax in/out, 1/4" jack
QLS 350 ...for digital out (spdif....both optical and coax) ...its amp is not good though @200
JH3A @~1700 ...(with JH16/13 included) .....these drive onlt the JH16/13 ...no other headphone...exclusively made for JH13/16 and vice-versa
esanthosh
Herald
Amarbir,
Take typical chinese items. They are cheap. For instance, I have a Bravo V2 Headphone amp, which uses sub-standard PCB, poor power supply and cheaper components to reduce cost. But it costs anywhere between $30 to $50. So, if you even spend $50 more as an enthusiast to fix / mod and make it better, your overall cost is still within $100. I absolutely don't mind that. Similar is the case with Topping TP20 Amp. Under $100 shipped, this tiny amp rocks if paired with the right speaker.
I don't expect the same quality when I pay $800 / $500. We don't know if they outsource / label on another player, which is always possible like S:Flo and T51. But, even if they do, and considering that they sell internationally, a bit of quality control is very much required. If you pay $850 for a DAP and then add another $50 for component upgrades,.... you just missed a chance to setup a basic speaker rig.
Take typical chinese items. They are cheap. For instance, I have a Bravo V2 Headphone amp, which uses sub-standard PCB, poor power supply and cheaper components to reduce cost. But it costs anywhere between $30 to $50. So, if you even spend $50 more as an enthusiast to fix / mod and make it better, your overall cost is still within $100. I absolutely don't mind that. Similar is the case with Topping TP20 Amp. Under $100 shipped, this tiny amp rocks if paired with the right speaker.
I don't expect the same quality when I pay $800 / $500. We don't know if they outsource / label on another player, which is always possible like S:Flo and T51. But, even if they do, and considering that they sell internationally, a bit of quality control is very much required. If you pay $850 for a DAP and then add another $50 for component upgrades,.... you just missed a chance to setup a basic speaker rig.
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