Pulwama attack

[blr_p]

Its different location to the image i put up. So what exactly are those co-ordinates though? If Reuters and NDTV know that is the terrorist camp and the govt and IAF know it is the location that was bombed why are they fighting tooth and nail to keep it under wraps?

The NDTV report shows before and after. Forget the reuters report

The more they fight it, the more people are going to doubt them. And the BJP labelling everyone anti patriotic and telling people to go to Pakistan isn't helping their cause one bit. What does the BJP want to do? Make the entire country their opponents? Looks like BJP need to first get better politicians into their team who know when to shut their mouths and not destroy the BJP's image.

And what level of proof is satisfactory here ? this point was brought up earlier. Govt releases proof, people say it isn't good enough.

I would not consider the NDTV report as official, its likely from 'highly placesd sources' so selective leaks.

You demand to have proof, take stuxnet. This virus the israelis made to mess with iranian uranium centrifuges and send them spinning to destruction. All we got was some reports in NYT & WAPO. Nothing more. This then was heralded as slowing down their enrichment of bomb grade uranium. Likely this news was released after the Iranians discovered it.

Or when Israelis bombed the al-khibar nuclear reactor under construction with NK help in Syria. Some fuzzy photos of before and after. That was it. With Osrirak in Iraq in the eighties there was even less. This was good enough because everybody knows Israelis never lie, only Indians do (!)

 

[Black_Hawk]

Today's grenade attack in Jammu was carried out by a a student of Class 9 living in south Kashmir's Kulgam, who reached Jammu this morning.

The police said they identified him using the CCTV footage from the area and the help of eyewitnesses. A red rucksack he was carrying helped in the identification. The teen had mingled with a group of Kashmiris waiting at the bus stand before he threw the grenade under a parked bus around 11.30 am.

After the blast, the teen tried to flee to Kashmir. He was caught by the personnel at a police check post at Nagrota, 20 km from Jammu.

"He has confessed to his crime. A Hizbul commander from Kulgam had tasked him with the grenade attack," said Manish K Sinha, an officer of the state police.

The attack left 30 injured and a 17-year old boy dead.

 

[Roxtin]

think IAF should airdrop everyone looking for proof at the strike site, giving a first hand experience.

 

[abhi1984]

Can some one let me know are we or are we not in a democracy ? Can't a citizen ask his govt answers for work done or not done.

You know JFK once said - "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country". If we go by your yardstick maybe he was being undemocratic by saying that people shouldn't ask the government to do everything?

Now before someone jumps on me and maybe brands me a bhakt. Let me clarify, I don't care for Modi and he isn't 1% the man JFK was. But out of all the things we can complain about this government - proof of IAF strikes, Rafale, this seems over the top.

That being said, I do agree with him. I have seen Indians being overly negative. Ask anyone - do you have any hope for India? And they will rattle off the number of problems. And again this is not a Modi or UPA problem. It is a real mentality problem. Everyone wants, everything to done by the government. And to make matters worse we think punitive actions like laws/fines will help solve issues.

One of the bigger examples I see is that train fares haven't changed for years now ie the ticket prices haven't kept pace with the inflation. So, I find it funny when people complain about dirty toilets, crumbling infrastructure and will pay more only "after the government gives more facilities". Others point to me that Indian Railways is profitable, all the while ignoring facts like these:

https://www.news18.com/news/busines...nancial-year-heres-what-it-means-1724187.html

 

[chiron]

BJP's core politics implicitly condone polarization and the current govt. was confident enough and managed to win elections after pulling off demonetization. Partly due to lack of viable opposition but looks like they should get yet another term. I don't know what message is being sent to politicians if we let BJP win yet another election.

 

[fractal]

The Airstrikes are being politicized but its not just some single party. All parties have members who are making irresponsible statements. In other countries it would mark the end of their political careers but they know they can get away with it here and perhaps even get them some additional votes from their constituencies

 

[sushil.mudgil]

I can't believe this thread exists on here.

I seriously do not understand when people with zero knowledge on military matters starts asking proofs of their actions. Problem with democracy is that even a terrorist have human right and can bite anyone but the moment you retaliate, you will be called on for violating human rights. There are too many experts out there and our politicians do not believe in making responsible statements.

No one like war. It bring with it grief and tons of pain but we are anyway getting that grief and pain without being in direct war. We never retaliated so they kept their killing spree on. We had 26/11 and what not but they knew we will never put the cost on them for their actions , so they lived happily planning more URI & Pulwama on us. Now that we are hitting back, our own people have problems with that. classic !!!!!!!! . Classic example is Israel. You simply throw a stone and they will bomb you to stone age. Fact on ground is that days of #GANDHI are long Over or they never existed. we had this false sense of security that gandhigiri works while in reality you got to be #BOSE else no one will take you seriously.

Coming to BJP vs Cong .. I had still give my vote for current govt for i cannot tolerate the embarrassment of having some body with #RAGA as my PM. That guy is not fit to be a Peon in govt office leave alone a PM of this great nation.

and Urbannaxals along with Lutyens journalists will continue their tirade against state under one or other pretext. bundle of notes bring more joy to them perhaps...

 

[pratikb]

BJP's core politics implicitly condone polarization and the current govt. was confident enough and managed to win elections after pulling off demonetization. Partly due to lack of viable opposition but looks like they should get yet another term. I don't know what message is being sent to politicians if we let BJP win yet another election.

What polarisation is done?[DOUBLEPOST=1552076180][/DOUBLEPOST]You want mahagatbandhan Sarkar it’s policy paralysis ?[DOUBLEPOST=1552076239][/DOUBLEPOST]

think IAF should airdrop everyone looking for proof at the strike site, giving a first hand experience.

Let’s airdrop them and let those leaders do body count

 

[blr_p]

I seriously do not understand when people with zero knowledge on military matters starts asking proofs of their actions.

Those are the very people who will ask for proofs in any other subject. It's for those who know to teach in that case. I tried, can't say i did a very good job

People want transparency in all matters. For civilian matters this is only a recent thing going by the Hazare movement. Defense is another things. Govts do have a right to keep secrets here but there is also the flip side that they never release anything ever. This means cannot learn from past mistakes. We learn about what happened from declassified info of other countries. So half a century later i don't see why some things cannot be declassified.

Problem with democracy is that even a terrorist have human right and can bite anyone but the moment you retaliate, you will be called on for violating human rights. There are too many experts out there and our politicians do not believe in making responsible statements.

I'm of the view that when it comes to national security there cannot be two opinions in any party. Hard sell isn't it. After the strikes Sushma did call an all party meet where i expect all these matters would have been discussed but i guess people are anxious about the elections and just cannot help themselves.

No one like war. It bring with it grief and tons of pain but we are anyway getting that grief and pain without being in direct war. We never retaliated so they kept their killing spree on. We had 26/11 and what not but they knew we will never put the cost on them for their actions , so they lived happily planning more URI & Pulwama on us. Now that we are hitting back, our own people have problems with that. classic !!!!!!!!

It means people are more afraid of the Paks than the other way around. We are afraid that a war hysteria will affect economy. This lack of public support prevents us from keeping on the right path. One hit isn't enough. It has to be ongoing and we need to aggressive about it. The way to build support is to explain and teach.

Coming to BJP vs Cong .. I had still give my vote for current govt for i cannot tolerate the embarrassment of having some body with #RAGA as my PM. That guy is not fit to be a Peon in govt office leave alone a PM of this great nation.

If BJP wants to win they have to play to win and not become complacent.



If i were to take a guess, popularity for Modi comes down after notes ban ?

See how RAGA is catching up ? this will be a normal election. Meaning no wave election. A tough election. As a result of the airstrikes. Popular support increased 5%. Only matters if that surge translates into seats. BJP won popular vote in MP but still lost. In 2014, BJP got 90% seats in hindi states around 12 of them and got less than 10% in remaining states. If that 5% gives a boost only in hindi states then the win will be slim. Foreign policy & defense do not play any role in general elections. Pulwama and Balakote will be forgotten next month. It will be about day to day issues.

 

[fractal]

There was a window of opportunity to create a truly secular polity right after Independence but that was squandered. Communal and caste politics has been cultivated in India by many political parties, so when they call the BJP communal, they have no credibility. When a political party claims to be secular, it is usually signalling to its constituency that they will continue to get special privileges (at the expense of the rest of us). India is still waiting for a truly secular party which is opposed to communal and caste politics in all forms

BJP's core politics implicitly condone polarization

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

I seriously do not understand when people with zero knowledge on military matters starts asking proofs of their actions.

It is an honour to meet someone from the military. Which rank are you at?

 

[sushil.mudgil]

It is an honour to meet someone from the military. Which rank are you at?

No, I am not directly associated with military & I never said that i am associated but have spend almost 20 years with them closely & understands fully how they operate. For me, govt of the day is source of truth and i trust them. you can't have transparency in matters of national interest & foreign affairs.

Those are the very people who will ask for proofs in any other subject. It's for those who know to teach in that case. I tried, can't say i did a very good job

People want transparency in all matters. For civilian matters this is only a recent thing going by the Hazare movement. Defense is another things. Govts do have a right to keep secrets here but there is also the flip side that they never release anything ever. This means cannot learn from past mistakes. We learn about what happened from declassified info of other countries. So half a century later i don't see why some things cannot be declassified.

+ 100. Proof brigade is primarily those who are getting wades of notes from their master to question govt actions & who wanted to create a specific narrative which suits their masters. example are too many and name calling will unnecessarily create controversy, so will avoid.

I had suggest these very people to put in camera's in their bed rooms and stream everything for the sake of transparency. We are living in dangerous times and there cannot be complete transparency in matters of national security. Hell, subsequent govt have not released files of Mystery surrounding death of Netaji even after almost 70 years of independence citing foreign relations but that was never a matter of transparency for them but this is matter of transparency for them. clearly, current narrative is more important than what happened to a guy 70 years back...

I'm of the view that when it comes to national security there cannot be two opinions in any party. Hard sell isn't it. After the strikes Sushma did call an all party meet where i expect all these matters would have been discussed but i guess people are anxious about the elections and just cannot help themselves.

It means people are more afraid of the Paks than the other way around. We are afraid that a war hysteria will affect economy. This lack of public support prevents us from keeping on the right path. One hit isn't enough. It has to be ongoing and we need to aggressive about it. The way to build support is to explain and teach.

Problem is that the all party meet happened in closed door away from public domain They all know what have happened but will still question since votes matter more to them. So Party interests matter more than national security. Allegiance to their master matters more....Moreover, by questioning, they are giving a lee way to pakis to get away from tough questions. PAK media is already quoting various indian political leaders and building narrative that it's all propaganda.

If BJP wants to win they have to play to win and not become complacent.

View attachment 79079

If i were to take a guess, popularity for Modi comes down after notes ban ?

See how RAGA is catching up ? this will be a normal election. Meaning no wave election. A tough election. As a result of the airstrikes. Popular support increased 5%. Only matters if that surge translates into seats. BJP won popular vote in MP but still lost. In 2014, BJP got 90% seats in hindi states around 12 of them and got less than 10% in remaining states. If that 5% gives a boost only in hindi states then the win will be slim. Foreign policy & defense do not play any role in general elections. Pulwama and Balakote will be forgotten next month. It will be about day to day issues.

I would not trust these surveys. These are typically done in Urban areas while India lives in villages. these are released time to time to create a false sense among voters that particular individual is winning. typically people do get influenced by such surveys.. There is a reason why all thugs are getting under one umbrella trying to avoid that splitting of votes. When it's about survival, anything can happen ... more over dynasty is just trying to put their prince on throne either by hook or crook. Firm like analytica & Larger media have that role to create a narrative which suits and shows the prince in good light. Look at social media and my observation is that it have already started to happen. unfortunately too many personal interests are tied to dynasty.

I am expecting more propaganda as we near elections dates...since opposition have no real issue against the current govt..

 

[smnrock]

Pulwama and Balakote will be forgotten next month.

Certainly not this time... It will be made to remember at least till the elections

 

[sushil.mudgil]

Certainly not this time... It will be made to remember at least till the elections

Such things happen when there are no real issues per se in elections... When u have no narrative, you build & promote One to show that you are not clueless...and giving walk over to current govt...

 

[mrnikhilsudo]

You know JFK once said - "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country". If we go by your yardstick maybe he was being undemocratic by saying that people shouldn't ask the government to do everything?

Now before someone jumps on me and maybe brands me a bhakt. Let me clarify, I don't care for Modi and he isn't 1% the man JFK was. But out of all the things we can complain about this government - proof of IAF strikes, Rafale, this seems over the top.

That being said, I do agree with him. I have seen Indians being overly negative. Ask anyone - do you have any hope for India? And they will rattle off the number of problems. And again this is not a Modi or UPA problem. It is a real mentality problem. Everyone wants, everything to done by the government. And to make matters worse we think punitive actions like laws/fines will help solve issues.

One of the bigger examples I see is that train fares haven't changed for years now ie the ticket prices haven't kept pace with the inflation. So, I find it funny when people complain about dirty toilets, crumbling infrastructure and will pay more only "after the government gives more facilities". Others point to me that Indian Railways is profitable, all the while ignoring facts like these:

https://www.news18.com/news/busines...nancial-year-heres-what-it-means-1724187.html

I agree with airstrikes, that needs to be calssified but not rafale. Thats a contract and when there is suspect impropriety in any deal concerning the government it must be investigated.

 

[blr_p]

Here is an example of keeping things secret. How many cross border strikes have we done in the last five years ? two isn't it. No, its three but cannot tell you about the third one

India carried out three strikes in 5 years: Rajnath Singh

 

[pratikb]

I agree with airstrikes, that needs to be calssified but not rafale. Thats a contract and when there is suspect impropriety in any deal concerning the government it must be investigated.

when supreme cpurt has clarified no scam,
CAG also has clarified no scam.
what more proofs you need?

oh you want to create list of all options and upgrades taken and hand them over to pakistan and all enemy states?

isnt it?

 

[chiron]

What polarisation is done?[DOUBLEPOST=1552076180][/DOUBLEPOST]You want mahagatbandhan Sarkar it’s policy paralysis ?[DOUBLEPOST=1552076239][/DOUBLEPOST]
Let’s airdrop them and let those leaders do body count

There was a window of opportunity to create a truly secular polity right after Independence but that was squandered. Communal and caste politics has been cultivated in India by many political parties, so when they call the BJP communal, they have no credibility. When a political party claims to be secular, it is usually signalling to its constituency that they will continue to get special privileges (at the expense of the rest of us). India is still waiting for a truly secular party which is opposed to communal and caste politics in all forms

Well, the point is that the other parties if they felt that being truly secular would get them votes/power the would be willing to do so. The BJP/RSS ideology won't allow that. Whining about other people getting special privileges is a hallmark of this ideology.

 

[Mr.J]

Such things happen when there are no real issues per se in elections... When u have no narrative, you build & promote One to show that you are not clueless...and giving walk over to current govt...

This is more applicable to party in power than opposition.

 

[Party Monger]

lmao poor bhakts be like dun ask for pruff, dont koschan the miltarrahay. Well fuk u bhakts. We question everythign including ourselves. No one is above questioning. Especially not the chaiwala and his political antics carried out through the armed forces..