Pulwama attack

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I was 2 yrs old in 90s and I dont give a **** about what happened in 90s. Im focussed in the present and I know for a fact that this retard is not an answer. Wherther the dynasty that makes you froth at your mouth is the answer or not remains to be seen. But we know for a fact that UPA did very well. Only problem started when Mudi took over and BJP started stalling the parliament since 2010

Im not your average normal person, please dont try to fool me with your stupid questions. But I will answer them just for the lulz.
what are achievements of upa can you enlighten us ?
it’s whole term was marked by corruption scandals. it was policy paralysis of first class.
our defence capabilities got shunted like anything. why they did not complete mmrca deal?
 
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I was 2 yrs old in 90s and I dont give a **** about what happened in 90s. Im focussed in the present and I know for a fact that this retard is not an answer. Wherther the dynasty that makes you froth at your mouth is the answer or not remains to be seen. But we know for a fact that UPA did very well. Only problem started when Mudi took over and BJP started stalling the parliament since 2010

Im not your average normal person, please dont try to fool me with your stupid questions. But I will answer them just for the lulz.

you do not know when modi took over and u r debating here on this forum about such important matters. No doubt you know a zilch about what india's past is since u were just in nappies in 90;s & think that questions i asked are stupid. I don't care if you are average joe or son of SC judge. Make zero to negative difference to me, far i care for this nation and it's people & feel responsible towards it. When you are born with silver spoon & get everything on platter with zero efforts, that's when you lost it & stop caring for what hard work your forefather's did to ensure that you got everything on platter. no doubt you think dynasty is answer to our problems....

Learn some history from your elders and books. Than we can talk, for i have seen at least 30 more summers than you. Do give some respect to those because of whom what you are...fools never learn from history and i m sure you are better than average joe as you said...

god bless...
 
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I think of notes ban as similar to state violence. The state yields awesome power when it unleashes it on its people then something isn't right. To support it is tantamount to condoning violence on your own people. My honeymoon with Modi certainly ended on that day.

I'd posted about a similar measure implemented by the Brits in 1946. The reason was to go after traders who made off hand over fist during the war. The Brits didn't care what the effects would be. They wanted to get back at those that witheld on taxes. It was a revenge move. This is the fundamental problem with the idea. Revenge is not something an elected govt , by, of and for the people should be doing unless in an emergency.

It was attempted again with the Janata govt in 1979. You'd think after two former experiences that they would learn. They didn't so it was for political reasons. Promised to get back money back, couldn't get the black money back so had to make the beggars feel that those with money were getting it in the neck. I don't even know whether it worked even for that. Its so damn difficult to separate from the rest that you can make anything up here. Jaitely likes to say that income tax payers went up by ten million.

On ground and thinking straight what your wrote above do make sense but unfortunately truth is always not that simple. While in principle, i agree that in democracy, govt should not terrorise people but than govt have limited choices when the people themselves have gone rogue.

You are forgetting that the most adversely affected people due to demon & GST were small mid size traders / businessmen / grocery shop wala et all. Same time, they have always backed up the ruling party. in fact they are considered their core vote bank. Still they went ahead. I am sure compulsions were too many. You cannot keep looking towards govt with mouth wide open and hand behind your back. If people are not willing to pay their taxes honestly and willingly you got to make them fall in line. Historically Welfare states have failed miserably and we too have almost reached there in 90;s when you needed a licence for even breathing also...

Below is historical data of tax collection

https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Documents/Direct Tax Data/time-series-data-2017-18.pdf

In 2013-14 , 638596 People paid taxes and that number jumped to 1002741 .
 
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On ground and thinking straight what your wrote above do make sense but unfortunately truth is always not that simple. While in principle, i agree that in democracy, govt should not terrorise people but than govt have limited choices when the people themselves have gone rogue.
Then more research needs to be done on that before taking action. People were saying this is a surgical strike on black money but notes ban is the exact opposite of surgical strike. To get a few bad apples relatively speaking the entire populace was targeted. So this fails the proportionality principle completely. I cannot emphasise that enough.

You are forgetting that the most adversely affected people due to demon & GST were small mid size traders / businessmen / grocery shop wala et all. Same time, they have always backed up the ruling party. in fact they are considered their core vote bank.
Not forgetting, entirely agreeing, people whose business revolves around cash were primarily affected. If one considers the informal sector makes up the bulk of the country's economy.

Underlined bit is real India. They make up 65% of India's economy. Backing the party is due to blind faith they place in Modi. Some call him mahatma budh. But i think he got bad advice. There is no defendable economical rationale for notes ban, political however one can argue for.

Still they went ahead. I am sure compulsions were too many. You cannot keep looking towards govt with mouth wide open and hand behind your back. If people are not willing to pay their taxes honestly and willingly you got to make them fall in line. Historically Welfare states have failed miserably and we too have almost reached there in 90;s when you needed a licence for even breathing also...

Below is historical data of tax collection
Here's the thing. Why require people to pay taxes and ensure compliance. Welfare. Where is the money for those schemes to come from. No welfare, no votes, out at the next election.

This is redistribution at gun point (!)

This is class warfare. Why is a right wing party indulging in this ? the weird thing about the indian right is at times it can loop back on the left.

But that can't be correct because the record shows that janata did it too. Both NDA2 & Janata are centre right.

So i'm confused as to ideological compulsions here :confused:

https://www.incometaxindia.gov.in/Documents/Direct Tax Data/time-series-data-2017-18.pdf

In 2013-14 , 638596 People paid taxes and that number jumped to 1002741 .

See the highlighted bit

number of taxpayers.JPG


You mean to tell me notes ban helped increase compliance. Where are the jumps in tax base that can be attributed to notes ban in there ?

The number of taxpayers is increasing across all categories over time anyway so i would say i see no real difference. The problem with this topic is i can argue it both ways and to my mind the net is zero.

What troubles me is the decision was made. The thinking that lead to the decision more than its effects. It violates my beliefs of what a govt should be.
 
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What troubles me is the decision was made. The thinking that lead to the decision more than its effects. It violates my beliefs of what a govt should be.

Yup, this is the key thing. The decided on this and were confident of surviving it and they did. That's scary. I don't think UPA would have the balls to pull something like that but the Modi brand propoganda is a juggernaut.
 
What troubles me is the decision was made. The thinking that lead to the decision more than its effects. It violates my beliefs of what a govt should be.

yes. this is what most people who support the BJP fail to see. All their major actions were because some unknown sadhu or some retired no name, ignorant out of touch economics fellow said some thing in one of their party speeches. If those are the people the pm in this govt listens to and takes major life threatening country wide actions instead of the rbi governor or other IAS officers who knows their job better, then naturally people should question such thoughtless behaviour. But on the contrary, such followers are branding everyone as a threat and linking their dislike to being anti India.

The things like beef ban, lynching of people for eating beef / exporting beef etc or anything not "hindu" enough got a huge fillip by the bjp going soft on the perpetrators and not jailing or doing enough to quell such mob justice just because they have RSS people in their system. This is like taking bad governance from both China and Pakistan and applying it to the Indian populace in one shot. Take all the religious fundamentalism from Pakistan and take all the one party type of hard handed approach from China. And slap it on the Indian people without taking anything that happens afterwards into consideration.

If this is what people want their future govt to be, then i don't want to stay in India. Better to be in some other country than be here and surrounded by such ignorant people who sing praises.
 
note ban helped with terror funding and fake currency printing.
kashmiri stone pelting business was shattered.
darbhanga module and paki business of printing our notes is shut.

what you think about that?

<merged>

yes. this is what most people who support the BJP fail to see. All their major actions were because some unknown sadhu or some retired no name, ignorant out of touch economics fellow said some thing in one of their party speeches. If those are the people the pm in this govt listens to and takes major life threatening country wide actions instead of the rbi governor or other IAS officers who knows their job better, then naturally people should question such thoughtless behaviour. But on the contrary, such followers are branding everyone as a threat and linking their dislike to being anti India.

The things like beef ban, lynching of people for eating beef / exporting beef etc or anything not "hindu" enough got a huge fillip by the bjp going soft on the perpetrators and not jailing or doing enough to quell such mob justice just because they have RSS people in their system. This is like taking bad governance from both China and Pakistan and applying it to the Indian populace in one shot. Take all the religious fundamentalism from Pakistan and take all the one party type of hard handed approach from China. And slap it on the Indian people without taking anything that happens afterwards into consideration.

If this is what people want their future govt to be, then i don't want to stay in India. Better to be in some other country than be here and surrounded by such ignorant people who sing praises.

lynching was another libran business model.
it was congres funded media exercise.
 
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note ban helped with terror funding and fake currency printing.

The new currency notes were found in the hands of terrorists killed by our armed forces days before people got the first batches of he notes in banks. The fake notes of the new currency were also in circulation before people got their hands on the real notes. It makes clear that BJP politicians got access to them long before the common man and it also clearly shows the nexus between politicians in govt and these anti-social elements.

kashmiri stone pelting business was shattered.
darbhanga module and paki business of printing our notes is shut.

what you think about that?

What I think is how stupid does one have to be to believe that?
The govt couldn't even come up with a consistent set of reason or reasons in more than a year after they did it.

[DOUBLEPOST=1552547428][/DOUBLEPOST]
lynching was another libran business model.
it was congres funded media exercise.

So, you think the lynch mobs are fake despite there being interviews and open threats from people who participated in them and the victims are non existent and congress created a fake bodies and fake investigation? Not surprising since the Neo Nazi's are typically known for this kind of behavior even in the US. They think that pushing their heads deep up their bung holes would make those things non-existent.
 
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Today's grenade attack in Jammu was carried out by a a student of Class 9 living in south Kashmir's Kulgam, who reached Jammu this morning.

The police said they identified him using the CCTV footage from the area and the help of eyewitnesses. A red rucksack he was carrying helped in the identification. The teen had mingled with a group of Kashmiris waiting at the bus stand before he threw the grenade under a parked bus around 11.30 am.

After the blast, the teen tried to flee to Kashmir. He was caught by the personnel at a police check post at Nagrota, 20 km from Jammu.

"He has confessed to his crime. A Hizbul commander from Kulgam had tasked him with the grenade attack," said Manish K Sinha, an officer of the state police.

The attack left 30 injured and a 17-year old boy dead.

Watch this, explains the anti-national, communal agenda at play there


Been following that program for over two years and its been very informative about kashmir. By that i mean getting the Indian take. Indian reporters are afraid to report from Kashmir out of fear of either being harmed or killed. There is only one narrative that comes out and that is the pro-Pak one.

<merged>

note ban helped with terror funding and fake currency printing.
kashmiri stone pelting business was shattered.
darbhanga module and paki business of printing our notes is shut.

what you think about that?
Temporary until the new notes come in and it restarts. This is the same argument you can use to say the economy recovered once notes supply was restored.

Suggest you watch the above. The impression most have is the BJP is cracking down in Kashmir. They say it themselves too. But the reality is they are managing the situation and going slow. So they are not tackling it, taking the bull by the horns. Modi's decision not to talk to separatists was the right one. Why not move on them and all those over ground workers. When will that happen. Only the most violent are being dealt with leaving the rest of the jihadi infrastructure intact. Over ground workers are not civilians these people are trained to interfere with the state.

What happened to those separatists the NIA picked up. Two years later they are yet to see a court in Delhi. It amazes me to learn this.
 
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When will that happen
if you see ,ED is attaching all property's and hawala network of separatist.
so it is happening.
if their is any leader capable of solving kashmir once and for all,it is modi and modi only.
do you see any other leader capable at this time?[DOUBLEPOST=1552563338][/DOUBLEPOST]
What happened to those separatists the NIA picked up
thise guys were lifted up after balakot and no one knows where they are.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...bangla-border-bsf-dg/articleshow/65722977.cms
 
Then more research needs to be done on that before taking action. People were saying this is a surgical strike on black money but notes ban is the exact opposite of surgical strike. To get a few bad apples relatively speaking the entire populace was targeted. So this fails the proportionality principle completely. I cannot emphasise that enough.

That's how it works in any country. You can;t have a one set of rules for one & other set for other. Yes, people did faced hard ship for few days but than those who were clean were happy. It failed to meet it;s objective b,cause they failed to see the rot in system at banks level where notes were exchanged for 30 % commision. I know it because i was offered 30 % by some body known which i politely declined.

Not forgetting, entirely agreeing, people whose business revolves around cash were primarily affected. If one considers the informal sector makes up the bulk of the country's economy.

Underlined bit is real India. They make up 65% of India's economy. Backing the party is due to blind faith they place in Modi. Some call him mahatma budh. But i think he got bad advice. There is no defendable economical rationale for notes ban, political however one can argue for.

Yeah, So cash in any economy is not good because that means your economy is informal Until how far do you continue to let people do business informally. How do u bring whole money into system & make it work when people are not willing. Money lying in mattress is nothing more than junk since it;s job is not to get hoarded but Get circulated so that it reaches those who really needs it.

Here's the thing. Why require people to pay taxes and ensure compliance. Welfare. Where is the money for those schemes to come from. No welfare, no votes, out at the next election.

This is redistribution at gun point (!)

we first need to understand that why taxation exists in first place unless we understand that , we will continue to question its vary existence. When those with money are not allowing its distribution to those who really need them, than you got to force them.

This is class warfare. Why is a right wing party indulging in this ? the weird thing about the indian right is at times it can loop back on the left.

But that can't be correct because the record shows that janata did it too. Both NDA2 & Janata are centre right.

So i'm confused as to ideological compulsions here :confused:

What a right or left or central have to do with this. Its pure economics at play than any ideology.



See the highlighted bit

View attachment 79182

You mean to tell me notes ban helped increase compliance. Where are the jumps in tax base that can be attributed to notes ban in there ?

The number of taxpayers is increasing across all categories over time anyway so i would say i see no real difference. The problem with this topic is i can argue it both ways and to my mind the net is zero.

What troubles me is the decision was made. The thinking that lead to the decision more than its effects. It violates my beliefs of what a govt should be.

That's what i think at least that it helped in increased compliance. this is debatable though and i agree if it was due to demon really or regular factors at play but you can say that number increase is more in these 5 years compare to earlier 5 years.

You definition of govt needs to be fine tunes. We generally think that govts are all about good things but in reality they are all about everything. they end up doing lots of dirty work for larger good of us but since we people have a very narrow view of things, we end up getting offended thinking govt should not be doing this and that... Demon can be considered an example as such but i am sure it will help us in longer run.
 
if you see ,ED is attaching all property's and hawala network of separatist.
so it is happening.
if their is any leader capable of solving kashmir once and for all,it is modi and modi only.
do you see any other leader capable at this time?[DOUBLEPOST=1552563338][/DOUBLEPOST]
thise guys were lifted up after balakot and no one knows where they are.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...bangla-border-bsf-dg/articleshow/65722977.cms

This was long over due IMO. they got unnecessary importance during previous regimes. With the tension on border high, it was good time to put them in their place as their handlers across the border cannot help them in this situation.
 
if you see ,ED is attaching all property's and hawala network of separatist.
so it is happening.
if their is any leader capable of solving kashmir once and for all,it is modi and modi only.
do you see any other leader capable at this time?
This is the point, Sushil mentions only their assets have been listed ie public knowledge but no questions about those assets have been asked so where is the question of attaching anything ? so far

Modi is the best bet for solving Kashmir but they are moving slower than one thinks. It's not about will, Ram Madhav is very clear. Could be to reduce opposition.

thise guys were lifted up after balakot and no one knows where they are.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...bangla-border-bsf-dg/articleshow/65722977.cms
FICN will take time to regenerate i guess so this effect will be longer. FICN considerably coming down is credible.[DOUBLEPOST=1552594250][/DOUBLEPOST]
WP hates Trump no doubt, but when it comes to wars WP never questions its Government. WP is no model for journalism. In India we do see different viewpoints represented in the mainstream media unlike the US
By the looks of it neither is NYT


Palki's on a roll here, bravo :)

https://medium.com/@vamseejuluri/an...ama-attack-and-its-aftermath-how-8e675ac668bd
 
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Yes, people did faced hard ship for few days but than those who were clean were happy.

Are you sure? I actually did an illegal thing my mailing back my emergency cash from Canada to India. It cost me 2k to mail 5k cash. I guess that makes me corrupt and that must be the reason I was angry about demonetization. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
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Are you sure? I actually did an illegal thing my mailing back my emergency cash from Canada to India. It cost me 2k to mail 5k cash. I guess that makes me corrupt and that must be the reason I was angry about demonetization. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Technically what u did is against the law. No second thoughts about it but having said that what was the need to mail the cash, you could have used western union and similiar to send the cash back home. moreover, I fail to understand why people carry INR to outside of india knowing fully that currency will be useless there. I almost travel once in quarter to US or Europe due to business & just carry my Debit & credit card. serves me well since cards are accepted everywhere including uber / Ola . Been a while that i have carried cash to outside india...
 
Yeah, So cash in any economy is not good because that means your economy is informal Until how far do you continue to let people do business informally. How do u bring whole money into system & make it work when people are not willing. Money lying in mattress is nothing more than junk since it;s job is not to get hoarded but Get circulated so that it reaches those who really needs it.

lol. So you mean to tell us that before digitization every transaction done by everyone including the govt was informal? do you even know what informal means?

Just in case you don't know, this is taken from a business dictionary:
System of trade or economic exchange used outside state controlled or money based transactions. Practiced by most of the world's population, it includes barter of goods and services, mutual self-help, odd jobs, street trading, and other such direct sale activities. Income generated by the informal economy is usually not recorded for taxation purposes, and is often unavailable for inclusion in gross domestic product (GDP) computations.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/informal-economy.html

Informal has nothing to do with cash. It can be done digitally too or with any other goods like hawala system, diamonds, drugs, real estate, art, ngo's etc. Your definition is just biased towards cash because the poor used it a lot. Btw if you still don't know, there is more cash in circulation today than it was before the demonetization happened. So it's more "informal" today. What will Mudi do? Do demo again and again every time he comes into power?

Technically what u did is against the law. No second thoughts about it b
It was not against any law. Stop spouting nonsense. The RBI allows people to keep some amount of Indian currency (Rs 25000 or some more now) in cash if they are traveling, on business, etc. They themselves allowed people to send money to their relatives here in India to get the money exchanged. Don't go making your own laws now.
 
Technically what u did is against the law. No second thoughts about it but having said that what was the need to mail the cash, you could have used western union and similiar to send the cash back home. moreover, I fail to understand why people carry INR to outside of india knowing fully that currency will be useless there. I almost travel once in quarter to US or Europe due to business & just carry my Debit & credit card. serves me well since cards are accepted everywhere including uber / Ola . Been a while that i have carried cash to outside india...

^^ Because cash may be required when you get back to India. You think credit card readers have any sort of reliability in India? My sister had twice had to resort to cash after landing in India when credit/debit cards failed her. My sister always keeps 10K in cash with her for such contingencies.

During demonetization, I had to go without lunch/supplies numerous times after credit/debit card readers at stores or at our cafeteria failed due to over usage and banks and ATM's were not getting supplied with cash. Even now, there are numerous times, when I have to resort to cash due to failure of digital payment options.


Yes, people did faced hard ship for few days but than those who were clean were happy.

That is a load of bullshit. I have always paid my taxes without skimping a single Paisa unlike the people who use every trick in the book to evade taxes using fake rent and medical and travel receipts and then preach about nationalism. So, why did I have to suffer while the black money hoarders were merry? And my hardships were nothing compared to the hardships of those who dropped dead while standing in lines at banks.

Don't also forget that not everyone has access to a debit or credit card. My mother has two bank accounts with nationalized banks and has had only ATM cards for both. Same story with many of my relatives in smaller towns.

The Indian justice system is built in the premise that not a single innocent person should get punished even if it means 100 criminals could go unpunished. This is why criminals often go unpunished when there isn't enough evidence to satisfy a court of law. "Innocent until proven guilty".

The govt flipped this around and punished everyone under the pretext of catching the guilty. Again its just a pretext. So, how is this travesty of justice that was demonetization acceptable. The govt has failed the moment when a single innocent person suffered because of it.


Yeah, So cash in any economy is not good because that means your economy is informal Until how far do you continue to let people do business informally. How do u bring whole money into system & make it work when people are not willing. Money lying in mattress is nothing more than junk since it;s job is not to get hoarded but Get circulated so that it reaches those who really needs it.

Again a load of bullshit. There is nothing informal about using cash. Currency is just a commonly understood and accepted form of bartering. Trade can happen even without govt issued currency. For example, during demonetization, there were markets where paper/plastic tokens were issued against a single lump sum payment that acted as currency in the market.

Removing the people's access to their money and putting it under control of govt is the first step towards making a country a dictatorship. Cash is present in US economy too and there are many people there who exclusively use cash for transactions and rest assured that the people would never let it be removed from the economy and for good reason.

Digital payments doesn't prevent black money. Majorty of the black money movement is in digital form. Corrupt politicians and businessmen do not move huundreds or thousands of crores of money in physical form. Physical money loses its practicality once you go beyond a few 10's of crores.

We first need to understand that why taxation exists in first place unless we understand that , we will continue to question its vary existence. When those with money are not allowing its distribution to those who really need them, than you got to force them.

There are two purposes of taxation in a democracy

1. Provide amenities required by the tax payers
2. Improve the way of life for the less fortunate.

The govt is a hired servant of the people put in place to utilize the taxes to work for the common good of the people. When people start admiring/adoring/idolizing political leaders, they have ceased fulfilling their fundamental duty as a citizen of the country and allowing them to abuse the system.

Honest people have no problem paying their taxes, but the duty of the people doesn't stop there. Questioning the govt at every turn and putting them in check is a duty of the people. Secondly, the biggest travesty is the selective application. Modi talks big about black money, but what about the black money of the people in his own cabinet.

I pay my taxes faithfully and get nothing to show for it, but what about people like Nitin Gadkari who have never paid a paisa of tax in his life. His annual income as per his ITR was 44.5K in 2009 and 2.4 Lac in 2014. This was part of his own signed affidavit submitted to EC which can be looked up. He spent 200 crore on his son's wedding in 2010 and 200+ crore on his daughters wedding in Dec 2016 right in the middle of demonetization when common people were dying to get their own money. He hired 50 chartered planes to bring guests. I even made complaints to IT dept using the email ids provided for whistle blowing, but no response and nothing done.

Don't you think it is hypocrisy to preach about black money and their own ranks were filled with black money hoarders. A signed affidavit with false details is a criminal offense and enough to not only disqualify from elected role, but also to put somebody in jail.

You definition of govt needs to be fine tunes. We generally think that govts are all about good things but in reality they are all about everything. they end up doing lots of dirty work for larger good of us but since we people have a very narrow view of things, we end up getting offended thinking govt should not be doing this and that... Demon can be considered an example as such but i am sure it will help us in longer run.

It is literally the fundamental duty of all citizens to question and criticize the govt at every turn. Doesn't matter who is in power. Anybody who doesn't do that is acting against the interests of the nation and hence is an anti-national. Questioning the govt or the armed forces or any entity that is funded from tax payers is not anti-national behavior, but not doing that is anti national. Tax evasion is also anti national behavior even if people think saving a few thousands using fake receipts is not has bad as frauds worth thousands of crores.
 
It was not against any law. Stop spouting nonsense. The RBI allows people to keep some amount of Indian currency (Rs 25000 or some more now) in cash if they are traveling, on business, etc. They themselves allowed people to send money to their relatives here in India to get the money exchanged. Don't go making your own laws now.

You are allowed to take up to 25K in cash form to foreign countries, but the issue I think is that mailing legal tender is not allowed in most countries. You can transfer money digitally or carry it in person without issues.
 
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