Pulwama attack

to add to the list,
no one in JeM is ready to take over as commander post in jammu kashmir.

hows that for mant of you modi haters?

you very well know who you are.
 
chetansha said:
https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...cross-the-Line-of-Control/article15477494.ece
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The date is the give away. First surgical strike was Sept 29 2016. Suddenly this article pops up a month later. Why ?

It was confidential back in 2011 but not after Sept 2016 ? Me too much :D

Now, getting into the details of Op Ginger. This was not directed at terrorists but at the Pak soldiers. This was a punitive strike. It should have been kept confidential because this sort of thing isn't quite legal. Compare with Modi's strikes which were directed specifically at terrorists and pre-emptive. No legal nonsense to deal with. If any Pak soldiers got in the way they were collateral damage but they weren't the main target. People like to think we are attacking Pakistan but none of the two strikes with Modi has this objective. Pakistan was irrelevant, only getting the terrorists mattered.

This operation would explain why in 2013 our soldiers faced a similar fate. I only heard how our guys got beheaded not that we did something earlier and it seemed like this major atrocity the Paks did to us for no good reason.

See, when you keep things secret, nobody knows what happened. Opposition does not get to make stupid statements. Also if its a failure then nobody knows. The worst thing is the public never gets the satisfaction we are doing anything. Just forever absorbing hits.

When you tell the world we are not taking this any more and striking back it has beneficial effects. The world now puts pressure on Pakistan instead of us. That is huge.

Just see how the Paks now have to act reasonable and can't shoot their mouths off any more.

Let's assume Congress with manmohan was in charge

https://www.financialexpress.com/in...h-on-current-india-pakistan-standoff/1502202/

Jaitley has already called the false equivalence being made here. Confusing perpetrator for victim. You get a sense that Manmohan would never have signed off on the sort of thing that Modi did. Maybe another PM might have. Rajiv or Indira. Not manmohan.
 
Cross border raids may have been conducted as an operational tool though have not been made public. Now in a democracy do the people have a right to know or should the government be allowed to conduct military operations in secret against a nuclear adversary?

One argument is a secret operation allows Pakistan to save face so they will not be forced to retaliate. However this means that you trust the government or that the army operates without government oversight. Also this policy has never deterred Pakistan
 
fractal said:
Cross border raids may have been conducted as an operational tool though have not been made public. Now in a democracy do the people have a right to know or should the government be allowed to conduct military operations in secret against a nuclear adversary?
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The reason they weren't made public and i mean Ginger is because they are in a grey zone and likely not legal. What was revealed is probably not the full story but what they could get away with revealing.

No, the people don't have a right to know. Govts can keep secrets when it comes to national security and conduct ops as they see fit. The best example of this is Indira informing the cabinet in '74 just two weeks prior that she would be conducting a nuclear test.

One argument is a secret operation allows Pakistan to save face so they will not be forced to retaliate. However this means that you trust the government or that the army operates without government oversight. Also this policy has never deterred Pakistan
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To deter requires a limited war which isn't going to happen. Think '62 and we don't think of challenging China and '71 where the Paks won't attack us militarily

Surgical strikes whether in secret or public are not intended to deter. They are to raise costs. And as we saw this time there was a diplomatic angle to it as well. It's still not over as the FATF meet is coming up next month and the Paks have to show they have made progress in curbing terror financing or they will end up in the blacklist. They will be required periodically and i mean not often otherwise they lose their value. We're not worried about them retaliating any more. The pressure will now be on them to de-escalate which means we get our first hit in already. If they want to save face maybe they should try harder to ensure we don't get hit in the first place.

I've not said anything about covert options and am not sure what the options are there. Plenty of possibilities to exploit, question is will and how our stance will change.
 
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No, the people don't have a right to know. Govts can keep secrets when it comes to national security and conduct ops as they see fit. The best example of this is Indira informing the cabinet in '74 just two weeks prior that she would be conducting a nuclear test
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There should be a time period after which these are made public after the immediate national security considerations no longer apply.
 
fractal said:
There should be a time period after which these are made public after the immediate national security considerations no longer apply.
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Yes, we should have a statute of limitations like the Americans.

Unfortunately to date no such concept exists in India which means a considerable amount of our history is unknown and consequently misunderstood. We have to learn about ourselves from other country's govt sources that became unclassified. Shame.

There is no obligation on the govts part to release information even decades later. Entirely at the discretion of the regime of the day what to or not to release.
 
Their 24 jet counter offensive was just a show for their own audience. They cannot afford to escalate with us as expected

Pakistan’s Balakot response aimed at misguiding domestic audience: Report

“It appears that Pakistan planned strikes at 7000-10000 feet. Clearly, this denied them stealth and also gave Indian air defence a warning time of 10-12 minutes… strikes planned at lower levels could have remained undetected for a larger portion of their flight,” the paper noted, questioning the strike planning.

“Planning of strike at 9000h-1000h is militarily illogical as strikes are planned at a time to achieve surprise. At late morning hours, air defences could be expected to be at their best performance augmented by visual observers to detect flights which escape the radar detection,” it added.

The paper said the PAF’s objective was not to strike targets on the ground. It noted that only three F-16 attempted shallow ingress of less than 10 km and then exited with the Bison on their tail. “Missing a target is difficult unless the intention is not to hit. The only inference one can draw is either poor state of training or intended drop of arsenal was not meant to hit any military or civilian target,” Sharma wrote.
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nimod said:
The document mentions 'In principal approval'.
Does that mean, no formal permissions are granted for such covert operations?
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In principle approval for initial planning and recce. Once targets were identified, formal permission is granted. Thats how it works I believe.
 
blr_p said:
I quote what others
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as usual you always contradicting what you said earlier... Isn't you said, govt was not too far from those imaginary numbers? And when asked for reference, you say its said by others.

Anyways as i said in other thread, what else can be expected from you!
 
Official statements don't mention the number. That would be the foreign secretary & the AF chief.

Amit shah mentioned the figure of 200 - 300 which the dumb opposition jumped on. Read my earlier post on why that was so stupid of them.

That is the figure I said isn't far off.
 
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