Reggae in colleges.

[dexBG]

That's precisely why I said that I'm NOT making a one to one correspondence.

Face to face interaction is more a reason to not promote such behaviour.



If you wish, I'll stop discussing this stuff with you.

You can discuss what you like but probing for the one answer which you want is baiting ..

like I said you can log off from a forum and delete your online account .. not what happens in real life.

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The entire aspect, the way you are behaving and posting is reminding me of Stockholm Syndrome.

And do you see me OR any other 'Senior Member' running around refuting all posts by so called 'Junior members'.

You assume I should be scarred and an emotional wreck because I underwent ragging and my support for it is only because of Stockholms.. that pretty over reaching.
I must hate and despise the people who ragged me .. is that the norm I am expect to follow .. I must denounce the practice ?

Does the forum remind you so much of college ? Really ..

 

[OinkBoink]

You can discuss what you like but probing for the one answer which you want is baiting ..

like I said you can log off from a forum and delete your online account .. not what happens in real life.

I'm not probing for an answer that I want to hear. But I am probing for an answer. A subjective answer (which consists of your views) to a specific question.

 

[dexBG]

I'm not probing for an answer that I want to hear. But I am probing for an answer. A subjective answer (which consists of your views) to a specific question.

I have given that already .. College and forum are not the same .. you want to consider one group of people here and equate that a college and want to me to tell you my subjective views on how should a certain aspect of college apply to an online forum ?
You want to me to hypothesize an answer or you want a realistic answer ? you said you don't want to a one to one correspondence yet you ask for a specific comparison ..

Earlier some one asked me if I would like to "rag" my future wife ..

Its already been mentioned with regards to the regulations when you asked originally ..

 

[OinkBoink]

you want to consider one group of people here and equate that college and want to me to tell you my subjective views on how should a certain aspect of college apply to an online forum ?

No, that's not what I wanted you to do.

Anyway, I quit.

 

[rdst_1]

Wow. This thread still going strong, haan.

 

[blkrb0t]

@dexBG I know you've refuted being a victim of Stockholm syndrome repeatedly, but please introspect yourself. The more I read your replies, the more it seems so, or maybe even a subset of the said syndrome. But I'm neither a psychologist nor an expert in this field, just letting you know. Usually the victims don't give up that easily. Although I'm not saying with 100% certainty that that is the case with you.

 

[asingh]

Earlier some one asked me if I would like to "rag" my future wife ..

No, I did not ask that. I said, will you question your future wife in the same manner, as how seniors talk down to juniors in a college....? Speech is speech. It is about human behavior and mannerisms. Ragging, talking down, condescending nature, superiority complex, hazing, subjugation, are all just different terminology. If someone is questioned and made to answer against their free will and they are uncomfortable -it- should never happen, provided it is not necessary. This is not applicable, suppose in a court of law. I see absolutely no gain around this, apart from mockery and one sided humor. No wonder we have cases of suicide, and police barricade. Of course some outright incident would have happened in your college, or nearby institutions that barricades for separation were set up. Authorities really do not dream up such implementation. Indians actually do not know the theory: Prevention beats the cure. It is in our blood and behavior. Even mine. We all are a sad lot. Humans hardly have rights, and free nature and individuality is curbed and discouraged. Ragging does that. It is how the British ruled us, and invaders ruled over us, and showed us there is as an entity greater. That has to be shown to new comers, and the seniors feel it is their right. Making group dynamics and creating soft clicks are bastions actually which never exist, nor will the suddenly manifest. Government officials do this, private MNC managers do this, anyone in a position of authority where a queue exists in front of their nose, will exercise this ability, to condescend and repeatedly imply the position of control and power. That is why when Indians land abroad we are hit with what you call: Culture shock. Equality is not even a word in India, thinking of it as a concept is fallacy and mystical and humorous. Imperial powers fascinate us, and respect based on any metric is 2nd nature to us. Your arguments prove this, outright.

 

[puns]

what happened to the thread title :ashamed:

 

[dexBG]

dexBG I know you've refuted being a victim of Stockholm syndrome repeatedly, but please introspect yourself. The more I read your replies, the more it seems so, or maybe even a subset of the said syndrome. But I'm neither a psychologist nor an expert in this field, just letting you know. Usually the victims don't give up that easily. Although I'm not saying with 100% certainty that that is the case with you.

Thanks for the concern .. I am fully aware of what I've said. Lets not make this about me shall me or any more clever diagnostics you can cook up ?

 

[ALPHA17]

You assume I should be scarred and an emotional wreck because I underwent ragging and my support for it is only because of Stockholms.. that pretty over reaching.
I must hate and despise the people who ragged me .. is that the norm I am expect to follow .. I must denounce the practice ?

Does the forum remind you so much of college ? Really ..

I did not call you a wreck. You are stating it yourself, I did not say you are a victim, you are assuming that.

No but parallels between the situation exist. We could behave like prudes to new comers like you and ask the MOD's to hound you off the site because of our seniority and hierarchical superiority but we do not do that.

To further state that which has already been tread if someone wants to introduce himself / herself to another party let it be on their own volition we should not do anything that encroaches upon their privacy. To paraphrase -- "treat others the way you want them to treat you." Not by being a haughty integrating superior force. Capisce.

 

[dexBG]

I did not call you a wreck. You are stating it yourself, I did not say you are a victim, you are assuming that.

No but parallels between the situation exist. We could behave like prudes to new comers like you and ask the MOD's to hound you off the site because of our seniority and hierarchical superiority but we do not do that.

To further state that which has already been tread if someone wants to introduce himself / herself to another party let it be on their own volition we should not do anything that encroaches upon their privacy. To paraphrase -- "treat others the way you want them to treat you." Not by being a haughty integrating superior force. Capisce.

Well no harm done, I was only using a bit of theatrics to drive home a point

Sorry if this seems offensive .. but if mods start to hound any one ... this place would die yesterday. This is the exact train of thought that I was avoiding with OinkBoink .. I am surprised that as a mod you brought this up.

How does this sound - "Hello excuse me, sorry to bother you, if i'm not disturbing your individuality or constitutionally granted rights .. but may I know your name, pretty please ?"

To further state that which has already been tread if someone wants to introduce himself / herself to another party let it be on their own volition we should not do anything that encroaches upon their privacy. To paraphrase -- "treat others the way you want them to treat you." Not by being a haughty integrating superior force. Capisce."

Don't you know how damaged and freedom-handicapped Indians are ?

 

[ALPHA17]

Well no harm done, I was only using a bit of theatrics to drive home a point

I am surprised that as a mod you brought this up.

I am not a MOD, you need a pair of glasses. =|

How does this sound - "Hello excuse me, sorry to bother you, if i'm not disturbing your individuality or constitutionally granted rights .. but may I know your name, pretty please ?"

Fine by my standards (a little irksome and lengthy), ask random people around you how they feel if you greet them like this while on a public bus / METRO. If they are also good with this level of politeness proceed to the next step of getting directions on where you want to go.

Don't you know how damaged and freedom-handicapped Indians are ?

What?

 

[dexBG]

No, I did not ask that. I said, will you question your future wife in the same manner, as how seniors talk down to juniors in a college....? Speech is speech. It is about human behavior and mannerisms. Ragging, talking down, condescending nature, superiority complex, hazing, subjugation, are all just different terminology. If someone is questioned and made to answer against their free will and they are uncomfortable -it- should never happen, provided it is not necessary. This is not applicable, suppose in a court of law. I see absolutely no gain around this, apart from mockery and one sided humor. No wonder we have cases of suicide, and police barricade. Of course some outright incident would have happened in your college, or nearby institutions that barricades for separation were set up. Authorities really do not dream up such implementation. Indians actually do not know the theory: Prevention beats the cure. It is in our blood and behavior. Even mine. We all are a sad lot. Humans hardly have rights, and free nature and individuality is curbed and discouraged. Ragging does that. It is how the British ruled us, and invaders ruled over us, and showed us there is as an entity greater. That has to be shown to new comers, and the seniors feel it is their right. Making group dynamics and creating soft clicks are bastions actually which never exist, nor will the suddenly manifest. Government officials do this, private MNC managers do this, anyone in a position of authority where a queue exists in front of their nose, will exercise this ability, to condescend and repeatedly imply the position of control and power. That is why when Indians land abroad we are hit with what you call: Culture shock. Equality is not even a word in India, thinking of it as a concept is fallacy and mystical and humorous. Imperial powers fascinate us, and respect based on any metric is 2nd nature to us. Your arguments prove this, outright.

Woah there.. ease up on the rhetoric there .. Indians are also the most shut-up(as in closed-up) people in the world .. what surprises them more is some one can easily walk up to them and ask em a question in a foreign country ? "Where ya from ,, what kinda work you in ?" -- they are more shocked by the curiosity shown by foreigners to their culture.

How well do you think Indian's mix up while living in another country .. how openly they interact with people or in a different environment ??
I've known so many guys who went to US for studies and have not have made 1 non-Indian friend in months ?

Western countries are even more bureaucratic and hierarchy driven, you seem to forget this fact .. more accurately Indians by nature huddle together in their comfort zone unless shaken loose. Ragging does exactly that.

- - - Updated - - -

I am not a MOD, you need a pair of glasses. =|



Fine by my standards (a little irksome and lengthy), ask random people around you how they feel if you greet them like this while on a public bus / METRO. If they are also good with this level of politeness proceed to the next step of getting directions on where you want to go.



What?

Whoops ... sorry I confused you with asingh ...

Read asingh's reply above how British rule made us handicapped in the freedom and equality department.

 

[ALPHA17]

Okay, a request. Please, learn to use punctuation's OR I shall report your post.

Woah there.. ease up on the rhetoric there .. Indians are also the most shut-up(as in closed-up) people in the world .. what surprises them more is some one can easily walk up to them and ask em a question in a foreign country ? "Where ya from ,, what kinda work you in ?" -- they are more shocked by the curiosity shown by foreigners to their culture.

I will be surprised too if a random person from another part of India comes to me and ask me personal details about my life.

How well do you think Indian's mix up while living in another country .. how openly they interact with people or in a different environment ??

Well if the news is too be believed, pretty poorly. But there are others who have gone there and settled and integrated themselves into the society. Have close relatives so can relate.

I've known so many guys who went to US for studies and have not have made 1 non-Indian friend in months ?

Personal comfort, I know people who have adjusted well to foreign shores and others who behave like you have stated. Cannot blame them, will not shame them.

Western countries are even more bureaucratic and hierarchy driven, you seem to forget this fact .. more accurately Indians by nature huddle together in their comfort zone unless shaken loose. Ragging does exactly that.

Uh! Have you lived outside India, gone for an extended trip OR have lived with family members who stays in other countries.

I have had the experience and to my knowledge most expats hunt for each other, not just Indian's but all nationalities. On the whole the society there is much more malleable and pliant to various ethnic influences although as you will go into the hinterlands you might experience resistance and even open hostility in some cases.

Same with the people in the host nation, some interactions were pleasant and went amicably and there are incidents that are best left unmentioned.

 

[dexBG]

Agree with you here ..

Secondly, what (lack of) punctuations do you want to report me for ?

Is is the over use of "...." ?

 

[asingh]

Read asingh's reply above how British rule made us handicapped in the freedom and equality department.

My prior reply, was not about how foreign rule has made us handicapped. It spoke about the lust for power and misuse of position and ability to easily put down/talk down another when given the slightly opportunity. That is the pattern seniors show when ragging is being done.

 

[dexBG]

My prior reply, was not about how foreign rule has made us handicapped. It spoke about the lust for power and misuse of position and ability to easily put down/talk down another when given the slightly opportunity. That is the pattern seniors show when ragging is being done.

Well whatever power a senior may lust for doesn't last long ..

I did have the same lengthy discussion with my friend and colleague .. his view on why he ragged was because he was "immature at that time to know better" .. he had proper ragging in his first year too
.. If someone answered his questions properly he was let go .. if they gave attitude then some "treatment" was given.

 

[OinkBoink]

Reading how some people defend their seniors, I too was thinking about this Stockholm Syndrome.

Anyway, from what I have read, a few days of ragging or hazing or whatever one may want to call it doesn't change ones personality. No matter how hard we try, our brain is not structured in that manner. As far as my knowledge goes, it probably takes months and years for an introvert to become an extrovert, if it is even possible at all. Do note that I am not using the term "introvert" in the conventional negative manner, but just as a personality trait.

I will tell you my experience. I was the first batch in my college, so never experienced any ragging. Job in my first company also went fine. Three years later, I joined a new company. There were 3 juniors (seniors were all well behaved), and seeing how soft spoken and timid I am, they used to make fun of me all the time. There was one lady who was senior to me, and she would defend me at times when this happens in front of her. I tolerated their behavior, never said anything back no matter how bad I felt, and usually just smiled at them. I also was thinking maybe I will get better, that I will get stronger one day to the point that these kind of behavior won't matter to me, or that I will one day get the strength to fight back. I waited for almost 1.5 years. Nothing happened! It came to a point that on some days I didn't even want to go to office because of that. The final result-I literally stopped talking to anybody in my team. If I were known as the silent guy earlier, now I have become the "that guy who sits in the corner, does the job, whether he comes or goes nobody cares" guy. I don't know how to act tough so that such people will leave me alone, so the only choice I have is to avoid everyone at all cost, observe for a very very long time who behaves in what manner, and then become friendly to those whom I am sure won't make me feel bad. Mind you, this is not because of my ego, but because of my desire to have a peaceful life, just so that I can focus on my work and move on.

When I got an onsite opportunity, one of the plus points I considered was that I can be away from these guys. Strangely, one of them already came to the same location I am working, and another one will be coming soon. Even though I had already decided never to have any interaction with that guy, I ended up letting him stay with me for 2 months until he got a car and was able to live independently. Being the “nice guy” I am, I never said anything even sarcastically to him in these two months.

What made things worse for me was that when I came to onsite, I had to stay with a guy who introduced me to his group of friends. He had only good intentions- probably after seeing me the way I am; he thought he could change me. His friends used to force me into drinking (which I absolutely hate, I don’t even drink any of those carbonated drinks usually), used to make fun of me, call me bad words when they get drunk, eat all the food I cook, wake me up in the middle of the night to make them food, make the house a mess etc. I was never used to any of these, and I was thinking what I experienced in office back in India was much milder than this. I actually wanted to go back to India, but knowing that these kinds of opportunities are hard to come by, I stayed. The moment I got a chance, I took my own apartment and moved out. If the experience in office made me not to socialize in office, this has made me afraid of even making new friends.

Initially, I used to think that may be these people don’t know how their behavior is making me feel. Just last week, I met my old roommate’s friends during lunch (we all work at the same customer location). I had actually changed my lunch timings just so that I won’t run into them. They were talking about gun control in US. In between, one of them jokingly said that considering the way he behaved with me, if I get hold of a gun, he would be the first target. I really don’t know why some people behave that way despite knowing well what they are doing.

Why did I say all these? Just so that people who defend such behavior should understand that not everybody has the capability of dealing with all things, which would appear so simple or harmless to them. It’s nobody’s business to mess around in another person’s life. If you think you can help, you are welcome. But even when you are offering help to someone, you have to be careful. That person may interpret that as “you considering him as a weak person”. I know some will think that I couldn’t deal with any of these because I was never ragged, but I would have probably dropped out of college if I were in the same state of mind back then as I am now.

@unni

From what you've written, you seem to share some of the traits of some long standing, good friends of mine. People with whom I'll be friends, probably, till they or I die.

I have all sorts of friends, but personally I find the peace-loving types who respect others and go about doing their work without interfering in others' lives to be the easiest to be around. Even I instinctively feel good about being around these type of people and I feel like helping them whenever possible. Sometimes we have different opinions on things but we accept it as such and move on.

 

[ALPHA17]

Is is the over use of "...." ?

Yes, this is not facebook. You also tend to overuse '??' ',,' and so on.

It spoke about the lust for power and misuse of position and ability to easily put down/talk down another when given the slightly opportunity. That is the pattern seniors show when ragging is conducted.

BINGO!

 

[dexBG]

Yes, this is not facebook. You also tend to overuse '??' ',,' and so on.

Nazi !