So whose Bombay is it anyway?

@ funky ,I studied in a CBSE school, My first langauge was English, second being Hindi. No one could force me to learn (read/write Kannada) And I didnt, I dont regret it 1 bit! Everyone should have the freedom to choose what he/she want to learn and shouldnt be forced down.

Just so you know your own mother tounge isnt that important. I really cant write my own mother tounge :p Im not embarrassed about it. Nothing to hide here.
Why do you people complain about saying that non mumbai people coming and settleing down in your state and city?? Dont you realise that its because of these people that your city has grown soo much..

You can blame the anisocial elements and say that only outsides cause trouble. non maharashtrians. Infact Its always 99% of the time, its ones own community that causes trouble. The outsiders just want to live in peace and be left alone.

people here complain aboutmigrant workers, well then you need to adapt, Be better than them.. Learn something they dont know, or work better than or them something.

People can easily talk about culture and parents doing this and that, saying that parents learned this and that when they were young but come on who are we kidding here? times have changed, its much more competitive world out there. What our parents learned years back may have been good enough back then but now its nothing..

Lets face it learning a local sub language isnt that much of a benifit. Unles you are working around people who only understand the local langauge.
 
@Bikey - Sorry to hear about your experiences esp. when you were with your mom. I've also experienced this and I was too small to do anything at the time. I guess I know how you feel when some fellow takes advantage of your family in front of you. You can possibly kill that fellow.

This is what I mean by ordinary citizens been distracted with unimportant issues. Their own families have to face the misery of the govt's ignorance of their day to day problems of travel, housing etc. The govt meanwhile busy distracting and dividing the population on any lines possible and there is no ray of hope.

@raul - Good practical points man.
 
Sandy said:
@ funky ,I studied in a CBSE school, My first langauge was English, second being Hindi. No one could force me to learn (read/write Kannada) And I didnt, I dont regret it 1 bit! Everyone should have the freedom to choose what he/she want to learn and shouldnt be forced down.

Just so you know your own mother tounge isnt that important. I really cant write my own mother tounge :p Im not embarrassed about it. Nothing to hide here.

Why do you people complain about saying that non mumbai people coming and settleing down in your state and city?? Dont you realise that its because of these people that your city has grown soo much..

You can blame the anisocial elements and say that only outsides cause trouble. non maharashtrians. Infact Its always 99% of the time, its ones own community that causes trouble. The outsiders just want to live in peace and be left alone.

people here complain aboutmigrant workers, well then you need to adapt, Be better than them.. Learn something they dont know, or work better than or them something.

People can easily talk about culture and parents doing this and that, saying that parents learned this and that when they were young but come on who are we kidding here? times have changed, its much more competitive world out there. What our parents learned years back may have been good enough back then but now its nothing..

Lets face it learning a local sub language isnt that much of a benifit. Unles you are working around people who only understand the local langauge.

quote my 1 post where i have suggested I have problems with people from outside coming to Mumbai. I have objection when they complain about what languages are being taught in our board schools. Specially when its the state board who has a responsibility of putting out generation of students who can read and write language used for local governance.

Or is it that you are restricting yourself with a bubble of MNC / IT / BPO jobs as the only existing jobs??

Then blame city's infrastructure which is strain to over its limits siting our ideology being the reason for it when its not the case.

My entire friend circle in college was gujju considering my college was Gujju management college with 50% reservation for them in institute and over that the sheer population of Gujjus in Mumbai. We never faced problems. And none of them complained about Marathi being part of syllabus.

And there is nothing to be proud about in not being able to read / write your mother tongue. By not knowing how to write and read your mother tongue you have missed out on the god knows how much literature from your state.

I still find comfort in reading Marathi language books as these authors have a unique impact on what they write in their mother tongue.

@sydras : I hope you go through post no 158 and this thread and try to make sense of it. You just contradicted everything thats being discussed so far. Whose supporting MNS?

And what they did had nothing to do with being Maharashtrian or personal freedom . It was plain simple political stunt which will be forgotten here in Mumbai quickly.
 
So i just read a few of the top cadres from the MNS got banged up.

..they are waiting for 'legal' advice before going after Raj (if at all)

Would this be a fair outcome ?

cos otherwise screw this middle-class, 9-5, 2.1 kids life, these guys are having too much fun and getting away with it :rofl:
 
Raj and MNS are alone on this one to be honest. Noone is going to support him on his methods.

Mumbai is for everyone, now everyone needs to treat Mumbai as their own.
 
Funky said:
@sydras : I hope you go through post no 158 and this thread and try to make sense of it. You just contradicted everything thats being discussed so far. Whose supporting MNS?
And what they did had nothing to do with being Maharashtrian or personal freedom . It was plain simple political stunt which will be forgotten here in Mumbai quickly.

In what way did I contradict the discussion?

I'm not the one who deviated the thread from it's original context(which was all about the actions of the MNS btw). Even that does not matter anymore.

You spoke about going somewhere else for personal freedom. I had to defend it. I don't have to go anywhere. And what the MNS did is all about violating personal freedom.
 
Oh my GOD !! So much poison??

Members criticizing each other, standing tough on their point of view and flatly ridiculing others without much thought. Thank god we are not in the same room or there would have been many casualties. Avoid criticizing you animals !! :p

Peace.
 
sydras said:
In what way did I contradict the discussion?

I'm not the one who deviated the thread from it's original context(which was all about the MNS btw). Even that does not matter anymore.

You spoke about going somewhere else for personal freedom. I had to defend it. I don't have to go anywhere. And what the MNS did is all about violating personal freedom.

Read everything from Page 3.................

And just to make sure you get the point below, its not related to MNS or this incident in any way or sense.

About personal freedom. Personal freedom / will is bounded by the law, rules, regulations, social rules and trends. There is no such thing as absolute free will even in democracy.
 
Funky said:
Read everything from Page 3.................

And just to make sure you get the point below, its not related to MNS or this incident in any way or sense.

About personal freedom. Personal freedom / will is bounded by the law, rules, regulations, social rules and trends. There is no such thing as absolute free will even in democracy.

That's a clever way of saying that you don't have a counter argument. In fact, your last post to me was the same thing.

I think we all agree that what the MNS did was a violation of personal freedom. And that too withing the bindings of indian law. Or the law of any civilized country for that matter.
 
Personal freedom / will is bounded by the law, rules, regulations, social rules and trends. There is no such thing as absolute free will even in democracy.

Indeed and Amen!

But no-one has the right to force Tamil language or the local culture on me in Tamilnadu as much as I don't have a right to force Avadhi down someone's throat in UP....

But then perhaps Maharastra and Bombay fall outside the purview of the universally accepted maxim going by the viewpoint of some of the supposedly well-educated members on this forum

Coming to think of it, does any other state even have a slogan along the lines of Jai Maharastra?
 
sydras said:
That's a clever way of saying that you don't have a counter argument. In fact, your last post to me was the same thing.

I think we all agree that what the MNS did was a violation of personal freedom. And that too withing the bindings of indian law. Or the law of any civilized country for that matter.

nope, you made an argument which is already countered and re countered in all these pages. Thats why i said go back and read the thread nothing else.

What MNS did is that they broke the basic humanitarian law of attacking a defenseless person physically.

This is not done by any mentally sane person.

But then again, politics is a dirty business and I am sure he is going to get away with all this even when state is ruled by congress. Noone wants to touch him as that will make sure noone will touch them in the future.

I wont even be surprised if all this was staged and planned. Its a double dilemma for even congress. Which vote bank to hurt with election on the corner.

There is no point in even discussing the Raj and MNS issue any further. People will decide in upcoming election.

If anyone benefited from all this, its ShivSena. Over 200 activists joined Shivsena today from MNS. Go figure........................:rofl:

superczar said:
Indeed and Amen!

But no-one has the right to force Tamil language or the local culture on me in Tamilnadu as much as I don't have a right to force Avadhi down someone's throat in UP....

But then perhaps Maharastra and Bombay fall outside the purview of the universally accepted maxim going by the viewpoint of some of the supposedly well-educated members on this forum

Coming to think of it, does any other state even have a slogan along the lines of Jai Maharastra?

You are again suggesting this happens only in Maharashtra. All state boards have enforced local language in its education system. They must do that.

About Jai Maharashtra. Its not something ShivSena invented. Its a slogan used by Shivaji Raje. And its Jai Hind, Jai Maharashtra together........ This was when he formed a hindavi swarajya ( a free hind nation ).

Read the fine point its a hind nation, not Hindu or marathi nation.

A nation comes first, always..
 
More than anything that's been discussed on this thread so far what pisses me off the most is total absence of rule of law.

When it comes to the rich and powerful they always get away, we can't call ourselves a democracy or a civilized country if the well connected can literally get away with anything 'routinely'. This is something I think we can all agree on.

Why this dragging the feet on the latest violence, the state has power, the Parliament has power, the cops sure do have power to come down on this very seriously and believe me if rule of law in established in such cases against the rich and powerful nobody will dare to mess around like this. That's the whole idea of a democracy, this is like a mobocracy. Manmohan Singh is a great honest guy? So what? What is he doing?

Just because hooligans can threaten violence the state crumbles and pays obeisance, what sort of state is this, what sort of rule of law is this?

Most of these politicians are tainted with something or the other and yet they roam around freely and proudly, with 50 cars, ambulances and the entire state machinery and cops protecting them. Is this a kingdom or what? Why should a poor country spend thousands of crores on VIP security for generations of politicians. Rahul Gandhi protected with Z+ security, for what, We just don' value or respect ordinary people. Got connections, India can be the best country in the world.

Uddhav Thakeray ranting against pub culture and and westernization on TV with gangsters like Arun Gawli standing behind him. See the irony? What the *** is this. Cops never drag heir feet harassing harmless lovers and beating them up, going after bar dancers and prostitutes and proudly flaunting them on TV and sundry inconsequential things as if they have nothing better to do yet stamp paper scam, Chagan Bhujbal continues to roam freely. Dawoods's brother is roaming freely in Bombay and threatning people and the cops can't do shit.

Suddenly people who were roaming around in scooters and driving people around just 10 years ago are super rich industrialists today. At whose cost is this? Ordinary people, never mind which part of India you are from. Where are these politicians getting funds to buy properties like mill lands for thousands of crores. How come politician owned trusts have usurped prime land in Bombay for 'various purposes' like running schools and hospitals.

Sorry for the rant but somehow we are always talking about morality and culture and yet these things never seem to affect us, if we had any morality or culture we would be a different country. We can't be so moral and yet be the most corrupt country in the world sharing human development indices with sub saharan Africa on UN reports, that's doesn't stick. What we have instead is total lack of sensitivity to other human beings and zero humanity. All that matters is friends and family, with everybody else anything goes.
 
Dunno bout Mumbai, but the Lok Ayuta has been having some success with thier parade of busted cops & assorted civil servants, down here.

Is it all a show ? the big fish never seem to get caught.

Maybe its all just a ploy to placate what Raul just said.

Only the truly incompetent will get caught.
 
have nothing to say here rather than the fact that if for such a long time, people had the choice to call the city Bombay or Mumbai, well it should remain the same even now. Official records can state whatever it may be but Sena has no right to force anyone to stop calling the city as Bombay. Thats really regressive.

For your kind information...the name Bombay was coined/given to the city by a bunch of foreigners...it isnt the name the locals refered to the city as...
For the locals the citys name always was Mumbai....The Congress govt couldnt care less about improving the citys infrastructure, so hoping they'd change the citys name from Bombay to Mumbai was a no brainner....
It was always on Shiv-Sena's agenda to rename the city as Mumbai....go to any part of Maharashtra and you'll find that ppl always refer to the city as Mumbai and not Bombay....

Why are ppl hell bent on calling Mumbai as Bombay??? Just cause it was renamed by Sena-BJP govt? or they r just too ignorant about the city's history? or plain dumb?

Nasik was once named Gulshanabad by a moghul empreror...the name remained for a while...but today Nasik is Nasik because it is what the locals who have been living here for hundreds of years have been calling it...

And if you cant respect the locals of a city then you dont deserve to be a part of that city....

This is completely beyond the point. What you state is learning through one's own accord. What I have been stating so far is forced learning enforced by the maharashtra state board. There is a massive difference between the two. I'd not call the Karnataka state board very progressive but atleast it gives a choice to the student to learn either kannada or his own native language. No such option in case of Maharashtra where the option is between Hindi and another language . This is retarded. I'd say Hindi is million times more important to learn to survive in India or for that matter Mumbai itself than Marathi for god's sake.

Seriously??? You are now saying a particular language is less important than another....so i guess we all maharashtrains shld take your advice and stop learning marathi because its not important!!
Mumbai is the capital of Maharashtra and the state's official language is Marathi and is recognised by the constitution....
Also every state has its laws...if you find those laws not to your liking...please feel free to move elsewhere suitable to your tastes...
A state has the rights to set education standards it deems neccersay for the ppl of the state...you cant come along and say i want to stay in your state but i dont to follow your rules n regulations....
I fail to understand how you can assimilate or understand a culture without knowing its language!!
 
I just have to say, Funky, Aces170 and all whom I was arguing with :p , I respect your views. I'm signing off on this thread. I've a feeling any more discussion on this sensitive topic is going to lead to animosity in other discussions to come and I don't want that . I value your technical insights and suggestions too much to take this any further :bleh: .

Peace out.
 
I have been living in mumbai since 8 years. And i still cant speak marathi......And i am packing bags and going back to "MY INDIA". :p

I will go by car, dont want to be troubled by MNS people. :mad:
 
Wraith said:
Seriously??? You are now saying a particular language is less important than another....so i guess we all maharashtrains shld take your advice and stop learning marathi because its not important!!

umm, don't think that was ever said.

The argument has always been over *choice* as opposed to mandatory learning. Each person has different uses for the word important, why is it not possible to respect that. Especially since no one is really being *prevented* from learning it in the first place ;)

Forcing does not breed interest but usually the opposite.

I live in BLR, i'm seriously considering learning tamil because i think it would help me get better deals, working with ppl in the trades. Many of them come over from TN for better jobs here, and they are usually quite good at their work, immigrants generally are better ie more competitive than the locals. Now i could find an english speaking guy, but that comes at a 20-40% premium.

Point being...you get beter results when ppl are motivated than when they are forced, anytime, anywhere :)
 
Learning Marathi is compulsory only under Maharashtra State Board schools....and why shouldnt a state board make learning its official language compulsory under its school?

Dont want to learn Marathi? Join ICSE/CBSE schools...no one is being forced to study in SSC schools....

Freedom to choose is fine but there are things such as rules which you need to follow and every state has different set of rules....

Tomm someone will come along and say we dont want Marathi as the official language of the state of Maharashtra because its inconvinient to a particular class of ppl......is there any sense in it??
 
Back
Top