The Aam Admi Party

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Pros:
  • Creation of more, better quality jobs
  • Lower priced products
  • Crowding In for the manufacturing sector due to increased demand
  • Increased impetus to the infrastructure sector
  • Better customer service
  • Reduce wastage of agricultural produce
  • Farmers getting better compensation for their produce - Plus the government not wasting insane amounts of money buying and then storing food grains which mostly end up rotting under the MSP, PDS etc.
  • More money for the government through taxes etc. since the transactions would be transparent. I would hazard a guess and say middlemen etc. skip on their taxes a lot
Cons could be the adverse effect on your mom and pop stores and fear of MNC's dumping cheaper, better quality foreign products instead of buying useless, overpriced junket from Indian firms.
 
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Economic, not social. And that can be easily countered using progressive taxation and minimum wage legislation. Unfortunately, that would require the government to actually do something.
 
m-jeri said:
What legacy? What are you people even talking about?. Just let it be. We are just creating new monsters. Mark my words.
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This is my last post in this thread. Can you care to elaborate how the new "monsters" are so much worse than the ones we have?
 
manu1991 said:
Pros:
  • Creation of more, better quality jobs
  • Lower priced products
  • Crowding In for the manufacturing sector due to increased demand
  • Increased impetus to the infrastructure sector
  • Better customer service
  • Reduce wastage of agricultural produce
  • Farmers getting better compensation for their produce - Plus the government not wasting insane amounts of money buying and then storing food grains which mostly end up rotting under the MSP, PDS etc.
  • More money for the government through taxes etc. since the transactions would be transparent. I would hazard a guess and say middlemen etc. skip on their taxes a lot
Cons could be the adverse effect on your mom and pop stores and fear of MNC's dumping cheaper, better quality foreign products instead of buying useless, overpriced junket from Indian firms.
Click to expand...
- Creation of more, better quality jobs
Do you know what is the average size of a Walmart store? They are true behemoths and nothing like India is used to. They are the amongst the lowest paying jobs in America and yet people have to work there because they demolish the competition wherever they set up. Do a google search to see how unhappy people are with Walmart. And these are not the lazy ones asking for more money. These people work 10-12 hours a day, and that too in retail, which might be the amongst the worst places to work in.

Pasting this from a comment in an article on the Forbes website:
I work at Walmart. Their policy is: "no more than 1/3 of workers can be full time"- so, after 1 1/2 yrs, I am still 32 hrs/wk. Also, when a worker gets to $13/hr (assuming they don't quit or get fired before then) then they are terminated. When our superstore was built, WM Corp promised "450 full time jobs paying $10/hr" back in 2005. Instead, our store has 100 full time jobs, the rest part time with no benefits. "If you don't like it, quit!". Well, yes, if there *WERE* other jobs, we would all quit. But WM has wiped out most of the competition with cheap, shoddy products and its anti labour, anti built in America policies. Briefly: there ARE no other jobs. And WM sets the bar low for all the other companies: in order to compete, Target and everyone else must follow the same policies: products made in China, no benefits for workers, part time only.

India is worse in that aspect since their is no concept of a minimum wage. My mom was chatting with a Maybelline saleswoman in Pantaloons or someplace. That lady, must be in her early 20s, stands 9 hours a day (no chairs permitted), sells lipstick for around Rs 3000 per month here in Pune. These are the "quality" jobs that these stores will bring in.

- You mention a con as the
"fear of MNC's dumping cheaper, better quality foreign products instead of buying useless, overpriced junket from Indian firms.".
and then you list a pro as
Crowding In for the manufacturing sector due to increased demand

They will not buy Indian goods when Chinese goods are available for a fraction of the price. Yes, it could work if the government had strong rooted political will and decision making power, but unfortunately that is not the case in India. Look at the UPA rule in the last 10 years. Scams upon scams. You think a $200 billion company can't get their way in a country like India?

- Reduce wastage of agricultural produce
Farmers getting better compensation for their produce - Plus the government not wasting insane amounts of money buying and then storing food grains which mostly end up rotting under the MSP, PDS etc.
You are really reaching for the stars here. Bringing Walmart into the picture will not solve this in any manner unless the government is extremely cautious and pro-active, which unfortunately our government is not. Leave aside a few educated politicians, most of them have not even completed college. How can they understand the nuances of this?

Unorganized trade occupies a large part of our employed workforce, many more times higher than organized trade.

I'm not against FDI per se in retail but if it is not done properly, it will chew this country and spit it out. India is vastly different from US, Germany or any of the developed nations.

Give this a watch if you have time:
http://friendsofbjp.org/content/arun-jaitleys-speech-bjp-national-executive

Arun Jaitely has made some excellent points in the debate above.

EDIT: Just watched it again. He has spoken on all the points that you have mentioned. Anyone like me who didn't have exposure to this subject should definitely give this a watch.
 
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Sei said:
- Creation of more, better quality jobs
Do you know what is the average size of a Walmart store? They are true behemoths and nothing like India is used to. They are the amongst the lowest paying jobs in America and yet people have to work there because they demolish the competition wherever they set up. Do a google search to see how unhappy people are with Walmart. And these are not the lazy ones asking for more money. These people work 10-12 hours a day, and that too in retail, which might be the amongst the worst places to work in.
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The 'bad' quality jobs are still much better than what are currently available to blue collar workers in India. The lady who works at Pantaloons you mentioned, what would she do if there was no organized retail? Maybe you should have asked her this as well.

And your argument has nothing to do with foreign companies, what's stopping the likes of Big Bazaar, Reliance etc. doing the same thing?

- You mention a con as the
"fear of MNC's dumping cheaper, better quality foreign products instead of buying useless, overpriced junket from Indian firms.".
and then you list a pro as
Crowding In for the manufacturing sector due to increased demand

They will not buy Indian goods when Chinese goods are available for a fraction of the price. Yes, it could work if the government had strong rooted political will and decision making power, but unfortunately that is not the case in India. Look at the UPA rule in the last 10 years. Scams upon scams. You think a $200 billion company can't get their way in a country like India?
Click to expand...

If better quality goods are available cheaper in a foreign country, then they should be imported and the country should specialize in the good it has a comparative advantage in production of. So industries that have made 0 effort to innovate will be the ones negatively affected while others will be benefited

If I use the Scams argument, then there should be no private enterprise anywhere in India. Auctioning airwaves? Nope, there will be corruption. Midday meals? Nope. There will be corruption. Nuclear power? Nope. There will be corruption.

Elimination of corruption needs to be an independent policy target not related to the policy direction which is being pursued. A mainstay of assumed corruption cannot and should not be a factor shaping policy decisions
- Reduce wastage of agricultural produce
Farmers getting better compensation for their produce - Plus the government not wasting insane amounts of money buying and then storing food grains which mostly end up rotting under the MSP, PDS etc.
You are really reaching for the stars here. Bringing Walmart into the picture will not solve this in any manner unless the government is extremely cautious and pro-active, which unfortunately our government is not. Leave aside a few educated politicians, most of them have not even completed college. How can they understand the nuances of this?

Unorganized trade occupies a large part of our employed workforce, many more times higher than organized trade.
Click to expand...
Firstly, policy decisions and their nuances are shaped by bureaucrats not politicians, they mostly end up signing the files. Most of the people in the Indian Economic Services are fortunately well educated people who understand the nuances of the policy and its implications.

Most importantly, almost none of these points apply to Delhi. there is no agriculture, little manufacturing. Mostly services. Size of its consumption market relative to the country is almost 0. So what's the argument against FDI in Delhi?

I am not even going to watch Jaitley's video on the issue. I can assure you that the only reason the BJP opposes it is because the Congress is in favour of it. They were the ones who introduced the norms when they were in power around 2000.
 
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Congress is in favour because they must be getting thousands of crores in kickbacks. They don't care for country anymore. They just signed a memo stating that Indian companies can charge full amount for gas cylinder according to prevailing international rates. So from a 1000 or so for a cylinder, it will jump to around 2400 per cylinder from this April onwards. If people were reeling under impact of high cooking gas prices, all they've done is favour their biggest money contributor - Reliance group, by doubling the prices even more. They know they've already lost coming elections so they're passing such bills left and right as break neck speed.
 
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in related news

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/lz...PI-member-Kamal-A-Mitra-Chenoy-joins-AAP.html
 
kippu said:
watch when bjp comes to power they doing a uturn and letting the big stores in :)
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Only if they can surmount the opposition. They tried in 2002 and got beaten back. Then Congress tried and we ended up with a watered down bill that isn't even all that interesting. Does not do anything for e-commerce.

Still the merchant lobby wants to fight it...

Govt almost fell trying to pass it. This means its a pretty strong lobby. They've got AAP playing their tune.

40 million merchants holding 500 million (middle class + farmers) hostage. Which aam admi is the AAP serving here exactly.
 
6pack said:
Congress is in favour because they must be getting thousands of crores in kickbacks. They don't care for country anymore. They just signed a memo stating that Indian companies can charge full amount for gas cylinder according to prevailing international rates. So from a 1000 or so for a cylinder, it will jump to around 2400 per cylinder from this April onwards. If people were reeling under impact of high cooking gas prices, all they've done is favour their biggest money contributor - Reliance group, by doubling the prices even more. They know they've already lost coming elections so they're passing such bills left and right as break neck speed.
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Did you just predict the result of the next general elections ?

Given your track record of proven psychic prowess i will make a note of it for future reference :D
 
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manu1991 said:
I am not even going to watch Jaitley's video on the issue. I can assure you that the only reason the BJP opposes it is because the Congress is in favour of it. They were the ones who introduced the norms when they were in power around 2000.
Click to expand...

I only asked you to watch the video because he has given plenty of examples and reasons why it will not work here. And he has categorically listed that they had thought about it and rejected it way back in 2000. But that's your choice. You can watch it without a bias. Or you may not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Walmart doesn't even have permission to open in any of the major cities in the U.S. for many of the reasons we have discussed over here.

I might write a TL;DR but it's too long and this thread is not encouraging me enough to waste so much time.

m-jeri said:
:). So you do agree that we are creating new monsters. :)
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I deliberately put the word monsters in double quotes.

For future reference (so that you are not confused again), double quotes are used to imply sarcasm. I am only using the word again to show that I do not agree with you and am sarcastically asking you to back your argument. Do you get it now? :)
 
sharktale1212 said:
You can add AK in the mix too:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/arvind-kejriwal-2014-polls-will-be-a-contest-between-aap-bjp-congress-not-a-factor/articleshow/28825043.cms

Congress not a factor.
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This is a statement from Kejriwal. Delhi will be their stronghold because they've held all their rallies there.

AAP does not have any where near the work force ie cadres that the two national parties have.

AAP is a new kid on the block. They are unproven.
 
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