The Aam Admi Party

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I am not a supporter of AAP but I would honestly back Bharti. I am a part of my RWA and I would have really appreciated what Mr. Bharti did if this were to happen in my locality. I saw the local people's interview from that area and none of them were against Bharti.
 
Sei said:
Not defending the actions of the law minister by any means, he should be aptly punished for his deeds.. but it's strange how the police, media and establishment are up in arms about this issue, whereas the goondas in these cases have almost gone by unscathed:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...lashes-gun-at-toll-booth/article1-943612.aspx
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-policeman/article4526161.ece?ref=relatedNews
http://news.in.msn.com/national/kashmir-ministers-guards-held-for-beating-up-traffic-cop
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/salman-k...-iac-asks-president-to-step-in/300875-37.html
http://topic.ibnlive.in.com/samajwa...ployee-and-thrash-him-ZzQH8WXOG6c-246869.html
http://news.oneindia.in/2013/08/27/...dly-demolish-doctors-house-in-up-1292982.html
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sp-mlas-car-runs-over-constable-in-moradabad/1/177165.html

These are the few on the top of my head.. These did get media attention too, like for a day or a week. Indeed a strange world we live in, where people who are trying to do right (but fumbling mightily along the way) are persecuted but people who openly commit heinous crimes are defended in the open.
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+1 . I think AAP is getting too much (negative) publicity. Instead of giving credit that they are trying to do something even being a novice and accepting that there will be teething problems, there is a bombardment of accusations.

Imagine.. If AAP fails, it will be next to impossible for any other people's movement to rise in future. Can't help think there is an organized joint effort just to fail them.

Yes its a mess. Its like a dense forest full of webs. If you try to clean from within - webs, stings, spiders, chaos ... everywhere.
 
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Party Monger said:
Im sorry this is such utter bullshit packaged as a sane argument, sometimes it makes me doubt logic as a conclusive way of forming opinions. Seeing how people like you can bend it to even invent the ways in which the law works.

If only the law worked according the pedestrian logic you quote. Alas it does not. The principle is simple - A citizen gives a First information report of a crime, the police investigate, they ask neighbours, listen and see if the allegations merit a formal inquiry, then get the warrant on that basis. All was in place except the last one.

Also contrary to popular opinion, there were female cops on the scene. AAP will probably release a video of the whole situation for all to see if they can get the raw footage from the news channels. Lets wait and watch.
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No matter how many times you repeat the same bullshit , the fact remains that you cannot get a search warrant based on flimsy evidence. Its as simple as that... "Innocent until proven guilty" is the basic tenet of our legal system and that applies for investigation aspects as well.

Did the residents there have any other evidence to back them like video/audio or anything else to indicate that something shady is going on and who all persons are involved? Is any of them at least willing to testify on oath that one or more of these identifiable women have tried sell drugs or other services to them or somebody else? If that is so, why isn't AAP showcasing that to prove that the police failed to follow up the case. Mind you that is still not an excuse to take law into their hands like AAP goons did there. How do you explain Kejriwal flaunting an year old completely unrelated document and lying that some African diplomats have met them to thank them for their efforts.

I don't think you realize how easy it would be to harass people if it were so easy as you put it to get a search warrant as you seem to think it is. Even if the police have evidence enough to make a arrest, it is often not evidence enough to get a search warrant.

My dad was a magistrate and let me assure you that he won't be signing a search warrant that will allow the police to invade into private property and privacy of arbitrary number of people without more substantial evidence than the whims of a few neighbours.

Lastly, if the residents are so cocksure that these women are guilty and you believe them, how come, the medical tests done on them came out negative.

The whole sequence of events looks more like a racist flavoured witch hunt against the black women in the area than any thing else.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
No matter how many times you repeat the same bullshit , the fact remains that you cannot get a search warrant based on flimsy evidence. Its as simple as that... "Innocent until proven guilty" is the basic tenet of our legal system and that applies for investigation aspects as well.

Did the residents there have any other evidence to back them like video/audio or anything else to indicate that something shady is going on and who all persons are involved? Is any of them at least willing to testify on oath that one or more of these identifiable women have tried sell drugs or other services to them or somebody else? If that is so, why isn't AAP showcasing that to prove that the police failed to follow up the case. Mind you that is still not an excuse to take law into their hands like AAP goons did there. How do you explain Kejriwal flaunting an year old completely unrelated document and lying that some African diplomats have met them to thank them for their efforts.

I don't think you realize how easy it would be to harass people if it were so easy as you put it to get a search warrant as you seem to think it is. Even if the police have evidence enough to make a arrest, it is often not evidence enough to get a search warrant.

My dad was a magistrate and let me assure you that he won't be signing a search warrant that will allow the police to invade into private property and privacy of arbitrary number of people without more substantial evidence than the whims of a few neighbours.

Lastly, if the residents are so cocksure that these women are guilty and you believe them, how come, the medical tests done on them came out negative.

The whole sequence of events looks more like a racist flavoured witch hunt against the black women in the area than any thing else.
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Calm down my friend... I too have friends who are either lawyers and magistrates who know the law yet they are supporting Mr. Bharti. What he did was technically wrong but morally correct. I have been stopped with my wife, kids and my grandmother while coming back from Gurgaon to Noida and have been asked to walk on a straight line and to blow in a breath analyser which has previously been blown by god knows who. Upon been asked to clean that analyser I was threatened to be not complying with the law and with an action. It was middle of the night and I had to oblige. Technically they were correct but morally wrong as they could clearly make out I was not drunk and was travelling with a kids, elderly and a female and no way I could have been drinking.
 
Switch said:
Calm down my friend... I too have friends who are either lawyers and magistrates who know the law yet they are supporting Mr. Bharti. What he did was technically wrong but morally correct. I have been stopped with my wife, kids and my grandmother while coming back from Gurgaon to Noida and have been asked to walk on a straight line and to blow in a breath analyser which has previously been blown by god knows who. Upon been asked to clean that analyser I was threatened to be not complying with the law and with an action. It was middle of the night and I had to oblige. Technically they were correct but morally wrong as they could clearly make out I was not drunk and was travelling with a kids, elderly and a female and no way I could have been drinking.
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Not sure what point you're making. Just because it happened with you, doesn't mean it's justified if it happens with someone else.
 
letmein said:
Not sure what point you're making. Just because it happened with you, doesn't mean it's justified if it happens with someone else.
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I agree with you but also disagree because no one makes a hue and cry when it happens to thousands of people everyday across India. He said that it was technically incorrect but morally wrong.

These same police chaps who were acting all righteous in front of Bharti behave like pets in front of other ministers. Just read about the case where they refused to register a case of a father who was carrying around his dead, raped daughter and even laughed at him. I'm not saying that all policemen are bad, some are even worse.

Doesn't it strike you weird that never before has such a conversation been captured between a minister and a policeman? Do you guys seriously think that the camera just happened to be there and the policemen mouthing dialogues like "You are not letting us do our job".. Pathetic show put on by high command sitting cosy in their Congress headquarters.
 
Switch said:
Calm down my friend... I too have friends who are either lawyers and magistrates who know the law yet they are supporting Mr. Bharti. What he did was technically wrong but morally correct. I have been stopped with my wife, kids and my grandmother while coming back from Gurgaon to Noida and have been asked to walk on a straight line and to blow in a breath analyser which has previously been blown by god knows who. Upon been asked to clean that analyser I was threatened to be not complying with the law and with an action. It was middle of the night and I had to oblige. Technically they were correct but morally wrong as they could clearly make out I was not drunk and was travelling with a kids, elderly and a female and no way I could have been drinking.
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If what happened to these women is morally correct, then what happened to you will not even register anyway near on the radar. I am seriously baffled about how exactly you can justify that what this Bharati has done was morally correct? Its already reported by the women's groups that the tests on the women came out negative (which most AAP supporters seem to be conveniently ignoring to justify the incident), but lets assume for a moment that they are indeed guilty, so do you mean to say that barging into their house in the middle of the night, dragging them out, threatening them, abusing them, man-handling them, sexually harassing them is morally correct because they may be guilty? Unfortunately, I don't see the morality of it even if they are guilty. But, may be, that is how majority of our countrymen think these days.

Take this for example.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...13037_1_kangaroo-court-village-headman-bolpur
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...al-gang-rape-accused/articleshow/29269076.cms

A kangaroo court held trail of a 20 year old girl for alleged adultery and imposed a punishment of gang rape by 10 men which was carried out. The village vehemently supports the culprits and prevents the police from taking any action in the name of protecting their so called culture and heritage. I have lost count of how many times I have seen similar cases where rape or gang rape is used as punishment or as means of forcing a confession by kangaroo courts or mobs often without even verifying that the person is guilty. And its not like this only happens among uneducated people either. I guess that is our country men think or at least what they have become.

I cannot shake the feeling that this is the kind of fate that these women too would have ended up with at the hands of AAP goons if not for that police officer.
 
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Switch said:
Calm down my friend... I too have friends who are either lawyers and magistrates who know the law yet they are supporting Mr. Bharti. What he did was technically wrong but morally correct. I have been stopped with my wife, kids and my grandmother while coming back from Gurgaon to Noida and have been asked to walk on a straight line and to blow in a breath analyser which has previously been blown by god knows who. Upon been asked to clean that analyser I was threatened to be not complying with the law and with an action. It was middle of the night and I had to oblige. Technically they were correct but morally wrong as they could clearly make out I was not drunk and was travelling with a kids, elderly and a female and no way I could have been drinking.
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Yea, these days they stop a lot on the GGN--New Delhi--Noida highway. Two nights ago, I was stopped 3x in an hour. Coming back, regarding the moral heart of Bharti's act, I think it was grossly incorrect and he took the law into his hands.
 
Morally correct or not, it is illegal what they did and if AAP gets away with it then they are no better than any other parties. The road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.
They are taking it too far. People voted for them so that they can change the system from within and not so that they start abusing the system just like everyone else.
 
Superbad said:
good news for AAP
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/n...now-aam-aadmi-party-members-here-s-how-474701
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So what? You want to submit your identification proof, passport etc just to become a party member? [then some smarty pants would say that AAP is asking for documents for no reason and may be selling them to Pakistaan]

Party Monger said:
Unbiased media has gone down the drain. There is propoganda being run on most channels. Infact NDTV, CNN IBN and AAJtak seem like the only three neutral channels that are actually DEBATING the issuse instead of just pelting stones on AAP.
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I still doubt on these channels you mentioned ;-) Someone I know works in media and she was given 'instructions' about how to conduct interviews of those AAP supporters during the dharna. She was instructed to divert the topic if they started talking about A, B or C. And if she couldn't, then she can move on to someone else or cut off the guy politely.

Lord Nemesis said:
Did the residents there have any other evidence to back them like video/audio or anything else to indicate that something shady is going on and who all persons are involved? Is any of them at least willing to testify on oath that one or more of these identifiable women have tried sell drugs or other services to them or somebody else? If that is so, why isn't AAP showcasing that to prove that the police failed to follow up the case. Mind you that is still not an excuse to take law into their hands like AAP goons did there. How do you explain Kejriwal flaunting an year old completely unrelated document and lying that some African diplomats have met them to thank them for their efforts.
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Interesting questions you ask. I hope AAP has answers for these.
 
They aren't abusing political power, but shunning away from social responsibility. AAP might've brought a political revolution, but the recent events have shown that social revolution is still far ahead.

You can support AAP and still hold them accountable for individual actions.
 
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We Indians are still childish people and will go after any (apparently) good guy like a kid after a candy. We have to know that being simple and being a good politician are not mutually exclusive attributes. I have seen so many posts on FB or Whatsapp praising Kejriwal for being a simple person or behaving like a common man. What we should look for is abilities to plan and execute actions, lead other people, being unbiased and so on.

No one is asking for agenda of AAP. What will they do with current economic condition? What will be their foreign relationships? What they have in mind for impending energy crisis?

Just because a person or a group of persons have good intentions such are punishing black money hoarders and corrupts won't amount to any good if they don't have a proper plan.

Just 2 paise from a noob.
 
Now with the RBI phasing out currency prior to 2005, things will be a further mess....! I am sure, "proactively"; shopkeepers will stop accepting such issued notes, rather than let the cut-off date kick in.
 
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/foot-soldier/entry/the-africans-of-khirki-extension

“Life is hell here,” says Christine. “It’s like living in a hole.”

Christine is Nigerian. She’s been living in India for the last three years and currently runs a hairdressing salon out of Khirki Extension, the same locality in which Delhi law minister Somnath Bharti had barged into the home of four Ugandan women in the middle of the night, accusing them of running a sex and drugs racket.

Christine’s words are echoed by Damian C, who’s 23, and Anietie Ukin, who’s 24. The pair of them are also from Nigeria; they met here while doing a Bachelor’s in Multimedia and Animation from an institute in South Extension and have become firm friends — “We’re like brothers now” — over time.

Damian says he read that the Hollywood studios hired people from India to work on the special effects for the latest Superman movie Man of Steel, hinting therefore that the IT education in India is good and that it might open up avenues for him.

Anietie is the easier, more outgoing of the two, and he’s found it easier to make friends with the locals. Damian, on the other hand, says it will be “three long years” before he finishes his studies and heads back home.He says he got lost sometime ago and stopped to ask a woman for directions. Next thing he knew, he was being stoned by somebody from across the street. “I prefer to get lost now,” he says.

“We don’t treat foreigners like this back home, and we don’t expect to be treated like this.”

Anietie adds that ever since the Bharti fracas, the Africans living in Khirki Extension have holed themselves up in their homes and that none of them are stepping out because they’re afraid to.

Neerja Singh (name changed), a local property dealer, says that what is happening in Khirki Extension is “dono chori aur seenazori”. She says that it is the locals who harass the Africans and then on top of that, they complain about them. She adds that the Africans pay higher rent than the Indians who come here looking for housing, and that they’re good for business.

She also says that a number of robberies have taken place in the homes of Africans, but that they do not complain because they do not have the right visas.

According to official records, about 5,000 Africans (not including tourists) have been living in Delhi for over six months. The unofficial figure of course is much higher. Therefore, say officials, “there could be truth” to the allegation that a number of Africans are here illegally.

Next door to Singh, Vivek Kumar (name changed), who runs a mobile recharge shop, says business has been slow the last few days. And that ever since the night Somnath Bharti disturbed the peace in Khirki Extenstion, a number of Africans have upped and left the colony.

“They’re good for business,” he says. “But their culture is different from ours. Say I am serving a young Indian girl and an African couple comes up to my shop, ask for something and then get cuddly while I am serving them... That Indian girl will stop coming to my shop, won’t she?”

“To them,” he says “sex is free. We’re not like that.”

To which Christine retorts: “They call me monkey, they spit on me, and sometimes they slap my bum.”

Why does she put up with it? The abuse, the having to live in what she calls a hell hole. “What would you do?” she asks. “You spend so much money on coming here, on visas. You build up a small business. You can’t just leave it. You keep hoping things will change.”

Standing at Kumar’s shop in his Guru Harkrishan school uniform, 15-year-old Sartaj (name changed) says the Africans peddle drugs.

How would he know? “They sell to my friends,” he says. “I don’t do that sort of thing.”

Then he adds that he has been solicited for sex by the African women living in the colony.

Kumar adds that he is now scared to venture out with his wife. “The Africans are so strong. What will I do if they attack me?”

Of course, with all the charges and countercharges flying back and forth, it is impossible to know who to believe, and how much of it to believe. Nor is the irony easy to miss — most of the housing in Khirki is new and just about everybody here is a migrant. Singh for example is from Muzaffarnagar, Kumar is from Bihar. What that then, on one level, means is that the older migrants are now ganging up on the people who’ve followed them, the Africans.


Is there something that Christine and Damian and Anietie would like to say to their neighbours. “Yes,” they say, “be friendly and stop this racism.”

But that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen anytime soon.

A TV crew has come to Khirki Extension and the reporter has cobbled together a quick panel with whom she is discussing race relations? Can’t the locals talk out their problems with the Africans? Can’t they all just get along?

“How?” asks a man from the assembled crowd. “Even their language is strange. They speak so fast, we can’t understand them.”

Another gentleman — he’s obviously an outsider; he says he owns a house in Khirki but does not live there — holds forth in front of a small section of the crowd. He refuses to give his name but says that this is part of a grand design, and that the same thing is happening in villages in Goa. “First the Africans moved in, then they married the local women, and then they took over the community.”

“Be careful,” he tells the locals, “don’t give your homes to them, otherwise the same thing will happen to you.”

The locals fortunately seem more reasonable than that. Nasrul Hassan, who is 39 and owns a small computer business, says he doesn’t want all the Africans out. Just the bad ones, the ones running the drugs and prostitution rackets.

“Because,” he says, “when I go to drop my daughter to the school bus early in the morning and she sees a few Africans passed out on the side of the road, how do I explain it to her?”
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