The Dark Knight Rises


starchazer

Well-Known Member
Disciple
It IS relevant. You see, it depends on where you're polling your statistics from to form such a conclusive opinion on something.
No I don't think it is relevant. I know the world likes a movie while I don't (not as much). I don't think I need to delve deep into the statistics as to where I got the figures from because you don't even have to look, you just know that everybody (or most of the people) likes it. So I absolutely don't think it's relevant at all.

And it wasn't my opinion. It's a fact that movie is considered one of the best by many many.

This movie is hyped, just like any other big budget Hollywood movie was. If you look at it's previous movies box-office success, this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. It's plastered all over the Internet because that's what Internet does, it spreads the word. If you want to give into it's hype or not, that's your choice. Heck, I just came back from the show and I saw a bunch of teenagers in my adjacent row yapping "Hey wait let me update my status on Facebook about it". Not sure if it's a boon or bane (no pun intended), but this is how this generation works. Why do you think Justin Bieber is so hyped?

Agreed. And a lot of hyped stuff fails while some lives up to its hype. Even I like to ride hype trains for things that I am anticipating. I should clarify that my intention was not to question the hype itself.

Why can't it be their best movie of all time? Terminator 2: Judgement Day is my "best movie" of all time and I'll have a bunch of other folks to agree with me. Should we start questioning that too?

Why not?

I wrote in my first post that it's all subjective and my favorite movie of all time may not necessarily be yours and vice versa.. But if I want to question you why T2 is your favorite movie, what's wrong in that? May be there's something you saw and I didn't. May be there's something that you understand and I don't. Nothing wrong in knowing why a movie is favorite. (I absolutely love T2 by the way :p)

Like I said, in many cases, when others like a film and I don't, then I have to understand why. You see, I am not necessarily doubting their intelligence in the process, but my own.

These 2 statements feel a bit contradictory to me. Where did you get the impression from that it was one of the finest cinematic works? It's obviously the peoples talks, their reactions for the movie, and your beloved Internet. Their "hype" for this movie being branded in such a way, developed your curiosity. This curiosity must have created some expectations and when those expectations weren't met, you weren't in agreement with those bold statements. This is the same thing that happened to me when I saw Cannibal Holocaust, which was considered to be the "holy grail" of gore movies. I had various people who recommended it to me and even now, you'll have people who swear by it. I didn't find it that gory at all, in fact I found it to be quite amusing. So the hype turned out to be a downer for me.

I understand what you are trying to say here. In a way, despite watching movie so late, I knew there was hype around it which didn't meet my expectations. Which is correct in a way. But on the contrary I was hardly excited about watching TDK and had no real expectations to be honest. Now this is where the movie could have surprised me, but it didn't. I am not saying it was bad, not at all. But a lot of films just take you in by surprise. One example I must give here is of LoTR. I had never read the books, never cared about the movies. All 3 films released in theaters but I didn't bother. (Even though I did like fantasy stuff). But one day I decided to give it a try. It could be because these movies are super hyped, but I am being very honest here, I just never had any interest in the LoTR universe. So I watched the movies with least expectations. But today I consider the trilogy among my favorite movies and I regret not watching it in theaters (though as a positive point, I think I couldn't have waited for the sequels to arrive, so watching the 3 films back to back really paid off).

Who said anything about you being "stuck" anywhere, or even implied it for that matter?
And where do you think I said you, or anyone for that matter, said that?

I'll try to sum this up as best as I can. Let me first start off by why I feel that Nolan's Batman movies (and that includes The Dark Knight) deserve the attention that they are gaining at the moment. I have seen all the previous Batman movies back in my teenage days and that was a time of casual movie watching for me. Back then, I thought Batman Forever was the ultimate Batman movie and that Val Kilmer was was an excellent Batman. Oh the naive days. Then as maturity kicked in and I started to analyze movies more deeply, I realized how amateurishly some of those movies were handled, Batman & Robin taking the cake. Fast forward to 2005, we get Batman Begins. That's close to 8 years after the abomination I mentioned in my previous line. I went in with zero expectations and only with my faith in this comic book character. When the movie, I realised how brilliantly this movie was conceived. How ever detail about Batman's horrible past was acknowledged, how he was trained in the League of Shadows, how he dedicated his life to fight crime, why he wanted to keep his identity a secret, how did he get those gadgets built, his nemesis etc. Everything was spot-on. This was done with technical splendor and not with some half-arsed script with some cheesy lines. This movie had amazing production values. It was everything a Batman fan dreamed of and a good action flick for the general audience. This is how a dead franchise was revived, in style I must say. It was a serious and honest attempt, which paid off.

Naturally, when The Dark Knight released, the hype surrounded it because it's predecessor had set the benchmark so high. Post it's release, I still remember it being rated as the second best movie in IMDB's top 250 list for at least a week. Then as the dust settled, the average ratings faded with it. It was a fantastic movie, don't get me wrong.

See this is the stuff you get to know when you question. (even though I didn't question you personally). You just wrote why you like the Dark Knight saga. I haven't been a fan of Batman, so I had no prior attachment to the character. But it seems you had and you stated how you felt the previous films were so bad, so compared to that these films are really good for you. (good that I didn't bother watching previous Batman flicks). I actually like Batman Begins more than TDK.

But if you're just curious about the hype, then this generation has learned to create it. An age where the Internet and mobile phones now propagates news faster than any news channel or paper. If you're a film maker, then you'd probably think (just like me) why do movies like 'Dabangg' perform so well, while Anurag Kashyap's 'Black Friday' had to struggle to even release in our cinemas. I know, I do. But then I realise, it's just what people sometimes enjoy watching and they don't need to over-analyze every last detail of it. They just let their guard down and have fun. So do we take their reactions to the movie as the absolute truth? May be, may be not.

At the bold part: Again, I am correcting myself that I am not curious about the hype itself. And I agree with you on the Dabangg and Black Friday bits.

But you know, when i saw Once Upon a Time in the West, during the opening sequence (which I think is one of the best) I really thought this movie is going to be another masterpiece. But as the movie progressed, I felt the movie wasn't at par with Leone's previous works. And by the time film ended, I just had to question why am I a minority again!? :p So I instantly started looking for other people in minority, and started reading what the people in majority felt and had to say about it. There were a lot of things that I got to know through their comments, but nothing convincing enough to overturn my liking towards the film. So you see, this is the thing I frequently practice. :) I don't go on a mission to change their opinions, I just try to find out what I missed or didn't grasp and may be then give it another watch before changing my liking, if at all.

I should also add that I don't apply this on each and every movie that i see. No not at all. Haha, That would be so wrong. :D

Which brings me to a line you stated "I don't necessarily question "why's everybody liking this movie" but it's also a question to myself "why don't I like this movie when everybody does? And what exactly is it that I don't like in it". Let me ask you this, from a film-maker's stand-point, what would you prefer? Quality in your work or adopting the latest trend in commercially successful movies, albeit you not justifying it's success?

I hope this is taken in a healthy spirit. :)

There's nothing in your post that should be taken negatively. :) To answer your question: I think it would be best for quality films to be the trend in commercially successful movies. :D But personally I wouldn't want to compromise on quality. :) (or at least I'd try not to :p)
 

quixand

Well-Known Member
Adept
Awesome awesome movie! A great follow up to The Dark Knight.

I wasn't a huge fan of the idea of Anne as catwoman, but I liked the catty bits.

I liked this movie more than Avengers. #batmanForever
 

Ethan_Hunt

Secret Agent Man
Veteran
No I don't think it is relevant. I know the world likes a movie while I don't (not as much). I don't think I need to delve deep into the statistics as to where I got the figures from because you don't even have to look, you just know that everybody (or most of the people) likes it. So I absolutely don't think it's relevant at all.

And it wasn't my opinion. It's a fact that movie is considered one of the best by many many.

The point of me asking this query was to understand your source of proposing the question in the first place. At times, we tend to get curious when more than 2-3 people keep praising a movie and claim it's the best movie they have ever seen. It could be exaggeration, could be true. Which is why I wanted to know if it's a group of people who you usually hang out with who have made this claim or was it some Internet website which lead you to believe the same. If it was the former, then I would have asked you to expand the circle and get a broader opinion. If latter, then I would want to know that website to had it listed in their top 5 list.

Why not?

I wrote in my first post that it's all subjective and my favorite movie of all time may not necessarily be yours and vice versa.. But if I want to question you why T2 is your favorite movie, what's wrong in that? May be there's something you saw and I didn't. May be there's something that you understand and I don't. Nothing wrong in knowing why a movie is favorite. (I absolutely love T2 by the way :p)

Like I said, in many cases, when others like a film and I don't, then I have to understand why. You see, I am not necessarily doubting their intelligence in the process, but my own.

When you put it that way; it's a fair point. :)

Glad to know this question was out of your genuine curiosity and not some troll-ish comment. I hate it when that happens. ;)

I understand what you are trying to say here. In a way, despite watching movie so late, I knew there was hype around it which didn't meet my expectations. Which is correct in a way. But on the contrary I was hardly excited about watching TDK and had no real expectations to be honest. Now this is where the movie could have surprised me, but it didn't. I am not saying it was bad, not at all. But a lot of films just take you in by surprise. One example I must give here is of LoTR. I had never read the books, never cared about the movies. All 3 films released in theaters but I didn't bother. (Even though I did like fantasy stuff). But one day I decided to give it a try. It could be because these movies are super hyped, but I am being very honest here, I just never had any interest in the LoTR universe. So I watched the movies with least expectations. But today I consider the trilogy among my favorite movies and I regret not watching it in theaters (though as a positive point, I think I couldn't have waited for the sequels to arrive, so watching the 3 films back to back really paid off).

I was excited to see The Dark Knight, because I loved Nolan's vision of Batman. He truly understood this character and presented it with grace. That's the reason for me going to a 7:30 AM show on the very day of it's release and eagerly waiting for the movie to begin. I'm not saying it's perfect or the best movie of all time, but it was amazing. This movie practically changed Heath Ledger's career forever, though it was short lived. The memories of his role as Joker is what you'll hear a lot of people singing praises about. A lot of innovations were introduced in this movie, characters developed and brilliant performances were extracted. I was content that, unlike some hyped sequels, this didn't fail. And after watching The Dark Knight Rises, I knew why Nolan wanted to end his direction for this franchise. He wanted to end it, before the movie studios would demand unnecessary sequels. Let's face it, no matter how amazing a movie saga is, it has to come to an end. Raimi pulled out of Spider-Man and Cameron did the same with Terminator. So that's how I justify it's success.

And where do you think I said you, or anyone for that matter, said that?

I thought you directly quoted my post and hence the reference. But never mind. :p

I actually like Batman Begins more than TDK.

Here's a secret; I do too. It will always be memorable to me, as that's the movie which initiated this whole buzz. :D

But you know, when i saw Once Upon a Time in the West, during the opening sequence (which I think is one of the best) I really thought this movie is going to be another masterpiece. But as the movie progressed, I felt the movie wasn't at par with Leone's previous works. And by the time film ended, I just had to question why am I a minority again!? :p So I instantly started looking for other people in minority, and started reading what the people in majority felt and had to say about it. There were a lot of things that I got to know through their comments, but nothing convincing enough to overturn my liking towards the film. So you see, this is the thing I frequently practice. :) I don't go on a mission to change their opinions, I just try to find out what I missed or didn't grasp and may be then give it another watch before changing my liking, if at all.

Absolutely! However, in my case, I don't go by the buzz, but just naturally watch a movie and head into discussing it. The only time I ever question someone, is when I fail to understand certain segments of a movie, which could deprive my opinion of an otherwise good movie.

There's nothing in your post that should be taken negatively. :) To answer your question: I think it would be best for quality films to be the trend in commercially successful movies. :D But personally I wouldn't want to compromise on quality. :) (or at least I'd try not to :p)

Good to know that and nice to have an open conversation. :)
 

Spacescreamer

Well-Known Member
Staff member
^ Dude, whether hyped or not.. you dont miss out on a batman movie. And esp if that nolan guy has its hand in it.
 

Jakob

Well-Known Member
Adept
Great movie,Amazing finish by nolan everyone should just go and watch it,Worth it!
 

quixand

Well-Known Member
Adept
Absolutely must watch. For me its the 2nd best after TDK.

Nolan's version of Joker and Ledger's performance were obv the showstealer in the last one. In fact all the characters had something about them.

The one thing I would change about this movie would be the way Bane's dialogues were delivered. Kept reminding me of the Visari from KZ2. :)
 

sharktale1212

Well-Known Member
Adept
Absolutely must watch. For me its the 2nd best after TDK.

Nolan's version of Joker and Ledger's performance were obv the showstealer in the last one. In fact all the characters had something about them.

The one thing I would change about this movie would be the way Bane's dialogues were delivered. Kept reminding me of the Visari from KZ2. :)
Does this beat Prometheus ;)
 

swordfish123

Well-Known Member
Adept
I was disappointed with TDKR. I expected much better movie from Nolan. In this previous movies the dialogues had a much deeper meaning and the plot, screenplay were impressive.

The transformation of Bruce to a symbol, Batman in the first movie and the Joker, the depiction of Good vs Bad in the second movie were very well done by Nolan. In TDKR there is nothing that stands out. I did cheer clap with the crowd everytime Batman came on screen and the background score is what you expect from Hans Zimmer, still i had a better experience watching the other 2 movies.

Marion Cotillard acting especially at the end was appalling. I dont know how that got to the final cut.
The depiction of 3-4 months in the 2nd half was not done well. It was hurried.

These are something i never expected from a Nolan movie.

I couldn't understand few dialogues of Bane. Will have to watch it again when the DVD comes out. Till then my rating is 1) Batman Begins 2)The Dark Knight 3) The Dark Night Rises.
 

Rockfella

WFH FTW!
Staff member
I agree with you completely! Majority of the population fall in the "hype" drama, its so funny! Terminator 2: Judgement Day is my "best movie" of all time too! I watch a bit of it regulary. Last night i watched the fight scene between Model 101 and T1000 ;) Interesting fact : Arnold and Robert Patrick were trained to shoot guns without blinking… to give a hardcore “machine” effect? It was radical and way ahead of its time! No damn movie matches T2. Robocop 2 is also good!
It IS relevant. You see, it depends on where you're polling your statistics from to form such a conclusive opinion on something. This movie is hyped, just like any other big budget Hollywood movie was. If you look at it's previous movies box-office success, this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. It's plastered all over the Internet because that's what Internet does, it spreads the word. If you want to give into it's hype or not, that's your choice. Heck, I just came back from the show and I saw a bunch of teenagers in my adjacent row yapping "Hey wait let me update my status on Facebook about it". Not sure if it's a boon or bane (no pun intended), but this is how this generation works. Why do you think Justin Bieber is so hyped?



Why can't it be their best movie of all time? Terminator 2: Judgement Day is my "best movie" of all time and I'll have a bunch of other folks to agree with me. Should we start questioning that too?

To tell someone it's a sin to not like a freakin' movie is literally considered as a joke. It's just their way of over-reacting to something that they have liked and enjoyed.



These 2 statements feel a bit contradictory to me. Where did you get the impression from that it was one of the finest cinematic works? It's obviously the peoples talks, their reactions for the movie, and your beloved Internet. Their "hype" for this movie being branded in such a way, developed your curiosity. This curiosity must have created some expectations and when those expectations weren't met, you weren't in agreement with those bold statements. This is the same thing that happened to me when I saw Cannibal Holocaust, which was considered to be the "holy grail" of gore movies. I had various people who recommended it to me and even now, you'll have people who swear by it. I didn't find it that gory at all, in fact I found it to be quite amusing. So the hype turned out to be a downer for me.



Who said anything about you being "stuck" anywhere, or even implied it for that matter?



I'll try to sum this up as best as I can. Let me first start off by why I feel that Nolan's Batman movies (and that includes The Dark Knight) deserve the attention that they are gaining at the moment. I have seen all the previous Batman movies back in my teenage days and that was a time of casual movie watching for me. Back then, I thought Batman Forever was the ultimate Batman movie and that Val Kilmer was was an excellent Batman. Oh the naive days. Then as maturity kicked in and I started to analyze movies more deeply, I realized how amateurishly some of those movies were handled, Batman & Robin taking the cake. Fast forward to 2005, we get Batman Begins. That's close to 8 years after the abomination I mentioned in my previous line. I went in with zero expectations and only with my faith in this comic book character. When the movie, I realised how brilliantly this movie was conceived. How ever detail about Batman's horrible past was acknowledged, how he was trained in the League of Shadows, how he dedicated his life to fight crime, why he wanted to keep his identity a secret, how did he get those gadgets built, his nemesis etc. Everything was spot-on. This was done with technical splendor and not with some half-arsed script with some cheesy lines. This movie had amazing production values. It was everything a Batman fan dreamed of and a good action flick for the general audience. This is how a dead franchise was revived, in style I must say. It was a serious and honest attempt, which paid off.

Naturally, when The Dark Knight released, the hype surrounded it because it's predecessor had set the benchmark so high. Post it's release, I still remember it being rated as the second best movie in IMDB's top 250 list for at least a week. Then as the dust settled, the average ratings faded with it. It was a fantastic movie, don't get me wrong. But if you're just curious about the hype, then this generation has learned to create it. An age where the Internet and mobile phones now propagates news faster than any news channel or paper. If you're a film maker, then you'd probably think (just like me) why do movies like 'Dabangg' perform so well, while Anurag Kashyap's 'Black Friday' had to struggle to even release in our cinemas. I know, I do. But then I realise, it's just what people sometimes enjoy watching and they don't need to over-analyze every last detail of it. They just let their guard down and have fun. So do we take their reactions to the movie as the absolute truth? May be, may be not.

Which brings me to a line you stated "I don't necessarily question "why's everybody liking this movie" but it's also a question to myself "why don't I like this movie when everybody does? And what exactly is it that I don't like in it". Let me ask you this, from a film-maker's stand-point, what would you prefer? Quality in your work or adopting the latest trend in commercially successful movies, albeit you not justifying it's success?

I hope this is taken in a healthy spirit. :)


---------- Post added at 10:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 AM ----------

Regardless, I'll watch TDKR too, just to be "in" :lol:
 

Top