What exactly is Government of India doing?


rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
So i wantto buy Kashmiri apples. Ok now i find a farmer who will ship the product to me, oh yes, i want wheat from Mp,.now i will have to wait and see if any farmer is going to come and give it to me.
Kya logic hai
Not even gods can save us from such

Please read again clearly. I clearly said that they need to unite and form co-operatives. I actually have friends who are apple growers and have a co-operative and they sell all over India.
So again, if you don't think it can be done then I can show you examples where it does happen. The whole dairy industry in India is based on co-operatives and when run well, it clearly shows that it is better for the farmers.

Also, what you are saying is about a customer being aware and arranging stuff for themselves which I actually do for some organic stuff but what I am talking about is different. I am talking about farmers taking their produce to their local markets themselves or do value addition and sell wherever they can. And like I said, there are already thousands of them who are doing this already and are successful at that.
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Ok ship me 2 kg shimla apples ... pls quote price
I've told you man, if you only want to troll and not discuss about the points I made, then no need to reply to my posts.
Do you disagree, that if, instead of selling to a middleman, if the farmers sell directly to local buyers or wherever they can, they will make more profits.
 

nimod

Well-Known Member
Adept
So i wantto buy Kashmiri apples. Ok now i find a farmer who will ship the product to me, oh yes, i want wheat from Mp,.now i will have to wait and see if any farmer is going to come and give it to me.
Kya logic hai
Not even gods can save us from such


Shaktimaan's earlier 'prayog' has become every farmer's destiny now:




In Madhya Pradesh, custard-apple is called sitaphal.
 

chetansha

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Shaktimaan's earlier 'prayog' has become every farmer's destiny now:




In Madhya Pradesh, custard-apple is called sitaphal.
Had them today, really sweet, unfortunately it was available in road side stalls or in fruit stalls. I was hoping a farmer would leave his farm and come to every city and sell his produce. How unfortunate i am, i have to rely on shops.
 

ashoka1

Member
Disciple
There are many many examples of these semi-literate farmers who are already doing it with some help and some all on their own.
In fact, in Maharshtra, the movement to get APMC Mandis abolished was the brainchild of one such farmer co-operative organization and they very nearly succeeded in 2018. However, nothing is black and white and I understand that. What maybe good for one may be bad for someone else. It's just my personal belief, for a very long time now, that every farmer should at least try and sell their products directly to end customers as it is completely logical that they will make better profits that way. Elimination of middlemen would result in better profits in almost every business.
No,not going to happen. I already told you many farmers from rajsthan sells onions in punjab and haryana.Some time they make profit sometime losses are huge.Like some brings vegetables from himachal and sell them in chandigarh,punjab.
First thing farmers want after cultivating crops is field empty so he can prepare it for next crop.there is lots of work to be done irrigation,ploughing,sowing etc he simply doesnt have time to sell hiss crops to consumers directly.Above all he needs money
for seeds,fertilizers,diesel and house hold things.If he goes out retailing his produce who will work in fields? and in how much time a person can sell produce of 5,10,15,20 acres depending how much land he holds.it will take years in retailing and consumers don't buys in bulk.only few crops can be sold directly like vegetables.you cant sell rice,musterd,wheat,cotton directly to consumers they have to go to mill first processed and then distributed.now a farmer grows 3,4 types of crops so should he setup 3,4 type of mills too?.sellenf few kg is one thing and selling in tons is another.maybe some farmer have less land and big family then it can work.some members working in field some selling to consumers directly and only for those who lives near cities its not possible to travel 100 km and sell crops
in kgs.what you say is just not practical it sounds good though.Many farmers around shimla export their apples.These apples are far better then what we get in market.A friend of mine near shimla used to send me some boxes of those export quality apples and i have never seen like that in market.In winters he used to come to my fields with his bees to collect some honey and used to return in march,april for pollination in his garden.Some farmers bought those mobile flour mills on tractor used to sell flours in cities but govt banned
those in name of pollution just after 6,7 months.it's not that farmers have not tried but these things are not successful.Once someone brought the idea of farming strawberries and everyone went behind that blindly next year strawberries were selling for 20rs kg on carts.
 

chetansha

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Have to buy rice. Should i buy paddy, dehusk it and process it myself? Members pls advise best & cheapest way to do it at home
 

nimod

Well-Known Member
Adept
...Some farmers bought those mobile flour mills on tractor used to sell flours in cities but govt banned
those in name of pollution just after 6,7 months. it's not that farmers have not tried but these things are not successful..

Things are forced to fail.
The invisible hand works here.

I haven't gone through these 3 new bills,
but I am sure these bills don't provide any right to farmers to enter other states with his produce.

These bills actually enables the buyers to buy from farmers in any state, and move/store agri-products anywhere
and dissolves all rights of farmers for legal-remedies in case of cheating/fraud by those buyers.
(effectively blocking farmers from going to courts, if he dares to)
 

6pack

Well-Known Member
ex-Mod
The govt is trying to reduce middle men and local retail shops indirectly I think.

What these bills will do in future is bring only packaged grains, pulses and flour to consumers. I doubt we will get to see loose packaged rice, wheat etc bring sold. Malls and big wholesale business like Amazon, Dmart etc will buy in bulk and sell at discounted prices to retain customers. Right now I'm seeing more than ₹10-20 discount on lot of goods being sold on Dmart compared to local retail shops. People are saving in excess of ₹1k even after paying GST taxes compared to MRP in small shops. Guess how many of these small shops will shut shop soon.
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran

It's getting worse because people are stupid. They think just wearing masks keep them safe even in crowds. No distancing or hygiene.

Just the other day i saw this bunch of employees at a maruti dealer after work, in a dark corner near the showroom. They were drinking and smoking, forget wearing masks. Stupidty kills more people than the virus itself.
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
I have conceded many times in my earlier posts that selling directly might not work for everyone. In my view it is the best way to make most profit, but I do concede that it might not be practical for everyone and most farmers probably lack the knowledge and resources to change their growing crops and patterns. I have also conceded that these bills have many shortcomings and included a link to an article which exposes those shortcomings in one of my earlier posts.
So, what better policies can be formed? Because the current system also only works for a few farmers. Many farmers, including me, feel exploited by the APMC buyers. Like you guys have pointed out that I might have found out a better way but not everyone can do the same. So how do we try to solve the agrarian crisis we have.
My personal views will never be popular among traditional farmers but they have been formed based on my experiences and interactions with many like-minded farmers and groups. In my view MSP is not the solution unless a limit is also put on the amount the government will procure per acre. The logic behind this is that when a farmer is assured of MSP, they grow the stuff in as much quantity as they want to and that number has no correlation with the actual demand of that particular item. Also this creates many environmental challenges as well with disastrous outcomes like the current trend of growing rice in areas with low rainfall has resulted in severe depletion of underground water. In fact, this year only govt had announced incentives to farmers who won't grow rice and grow maize instead.
The day I decided that I want to start farming, my idea has always been to promote decentralization and go back to much older ways when a farmer used to grow multiple crops at the same time in limited quantities and not the mono-cropping patterns that is the norm these days where you see just acres upon acres of wheat or rice. Farmers continue with the old methods and grow multiple crops but mostly only for personal consumption and they grow only one or two main crops at the same time for the market. What is wrong with current way of producing and selling agricultural produce is a much wider subject with many inter-dependent components ranging right from selection of which crop to grow to how to sell it and IMHO requires a wide variety of changes in the way farmers currently practice agriculture in India.
 

ashoka1

Member
Disciple
The govt is trying to reduce middle men and local retail shops indirectly I think.

What these bills will do in future is bring only packaged grains, pulses and flour to consumers. I doubt we will get to see loose packaged rice, wheat etc bring sold. Malls and big wholesale business like Amazon, Dmart etc will buy in bulk and sell at discounted prices to retain customers. Right now I'm seeing more than ₹10-20 discount on lot of goods being sold on Dmart compared to local retail shops. People are saving in excess of ₹1k even after paying GST taxes compared to MRP in small shops. Guess how many of these small shops will shut shop soon.
No govt don't want to purchase crops from farmers so govt is handing it over to private players. Loose products will always exist from where a poor well buy who has money to buy ration for only one meal? Yes you will get cheap products for 2,3 years then govt will
withdraw all subsidies it's providing to farmers like farmer pays 25 paisa per unit for electricity he uses to grow his crops.Imagine electricity at 8rs per unit what will be price of final product?.Middleman will also remain and be more strong in fact these private
companies walmart etc are middleman buys from farmers making profit and selling to consumers. Only 1 or 2 companies holding all agri sector will have monopoly over both buying and selling price.Future of farmers in india is completely ruined by this govt.Govt don't have right to sell farmers land otherwise it would have done long ego when they tried to pass land acquisition bill now they want to achieve same goal trough these bills.
I have conceded many times in my earlier posts that selling directly might not work for everyone. In my view it is the best way to make most profit, but I do concede that it might not be practical for everyone and most farmers probably lack the knowledge and resources to change their growing crops and patterns. I have also conceded that these bills have many shortcomings and included a link to an article which exposes those shortcomings in one of my earlier posts.
So, what better policies can be formed? Because the current system also only works for a few farmers. Many farmers, including me, feel exploited by the APMC buyers. Like you guys have pointed out that I might have found out a better way but not everyone can do the same. So how do we try to solve the agrarian crisis we have.
My personal views will never be popular among traditional farmers but they have been formed based on my experiences and interactions with many like-minded farmers and groups. In my view MSP is not the solution unless a limit is also put on the amount the government will procure per acre. The logic behind this is that when a farmer is assured of MSP, they grow the stuff in as much quantity as they want to and that number has no correlation with the actual demand of that particular item. Also this creates many environmental challenges as well with disastrous outcomes like the current trend of growing rice in areas with low rainfall has resulted in severe depletion of underground water. In fact, this year only govt had announced incentives to farmers who won't grow rice and grow maize instead.
The day I decided that I want to start farming, my idea has always been to promote decentralization and go back to much older ways when a farmer used to grow multiple crops at the same time in limited quantities and not the mono-cropping patterns that is the norm these days where you see just acres upon acres of wheat or rice. Farmers continue with the old methods and grow multiple crops but mostly only for personal consumption and they grow only one or two main crops at the same time for the market. What is wrong with current way of producing and selling agricultural produce is a much wider subject with many inter-dependent components ranging right from selection of which crop to grow to how to sell it and IMHO requires a wide variety of changes in the way farmers currently practice agriculture in India.
No MSP is not solution it's minimum selling price.What farmer wants is 50% price above what he have invested in growing that crop ie if it costed 1000 rs to grow crop price should be 1500rs(Govt promised to double the income of farmers and it's half of that) wheter it's vegetable or wheat or anything he grows.But that is not going to happen in current situation unless every farmer is united in whole nation.Govt currently don't have money to buy even on msp from farmers.What they did with rice farmers same they are doing with cotton farmers withdrawal of subsidy on insurance premium for cotton is prime example now cotton doen't needs much water to grow and india exports cotton and cloths to many countries.On a lighter note govt can give license to grow opium and marijuana there is lots of demand in international market and yes govt has given license in some states like MP,Rajasthan and UP to grow opium for making medicines from it and british defeated chinese with help of indian opium.
 

nimod

Well-Known Member
Adept
It doesn't get more bjp than in UP


Yes, until you and the surviving family accepts that there was no rape or killing.
The govt wants to dispose Justice at the earliest, after all!!
 

nimod

Well-Known Member
Adept


63 per cent of those who died had at least one co-morbidity, and 36 per cent had two or more underlying health conditions

Out of 84,965 deaths in this data set, 1% had no pre-condition.
i.e. 849.
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran
Out of 84,965 deaths in this data set, 1% had no pre-condition.
i.e. 849.

That's a pretty small figure right? 1%

And even that probably means no known pre-conditions/comorbidities/underlying conditions. Because post-mortem, they wouldn't/couldn't be investigating that deeply.

These stats kinda give a little hope...
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
That's a pretty small figure right? 1%

And even that probably means no known pre-conditions/comorbidities/underlying conditions. Because post-mortem, they wouldn't/couldn't be investigating that deeply.

These stats kinda give a little hope...
Even if the other 84000 did have co-morbidities doesn't mean that they weren't living normal lives.
Having co-morbidities and having severe issues should also be considered seperate because even having diabetes is a co-morbidity but that doesn't necessarily mean that the person was very ill.
 

ashoka1

Member
Disciple
if someone have stones in urinary tract and he dies of corona will it be counted as co-morbidity?Or some had CAD and got it cured by bypass surgery,stunts etc and living normal live if he dies will it be counted as comorbidities. most people in india are suffering
from some sort of minor illness after 40 like hypertension, diabetes etc.i
 

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