No LPG Subsidy from Jan 2016 for consumers with 10 Lac Income

These needy poor will remain needy poor
No govt even looks what happens to the actual poor
Well, the statistics beg to differ. The number of people under bpl are slowly reducing by the day. Better savings by the government would lead to better and prudent investments which will then trickle down to the whole society in due course...
 
So the government should let them rot? There are few needy poor too you know.

There are many ways for the upliftment ( :p ) of the poor but LPG subsidy cannot be a part of it. It'll perhaps help 1% of the poor population who want a better lifestyle (read: sincere, hard-working poor).

There's a huge difference between theories and practicals - people with science background would know better. This LPG subsidy theory sounds nice but it's impractical. I'd suggest you take a tour of the slums in your city. Find a poor family using wood/cow-dung stove and try to sell them your subsidised LPG cylinder. Let's see if they ditch their free fuel.

I'll simply assume that this LPG subsidy is not meant for the real poor because what they actually need is free education, cheap food, cheap healthcare and some means to earn more money. LPG connection won't raise them above BPL. All these LPG cylinders will end up in black market.

There are 45 govt apartments for low-grade govt employees in my private colony. These are the people who fix your sewers, maintain water supply and sweep the streets. All of those 45 apartments have LPG connections BUT all of them sell off their cylinders in black market. They all burn free wood and cow dung cakes. They refused piped LNG connection on several occasions. These are the people who will benefit from the LPG subsidy and not the real poor.

Why is this turning into an income tax debate I fail to understand!!
How would you make a list of people earning more than 10LPA?
 
There are many ways for the upliftment ( [emoji14] ) of the poor but LPG subsidy cannot be a part of it. It'll perhaps help 1% of the poor population who want a better lifestyle (read: sincere, hard-working poor).

There's a huge difference between theories and practicals - people with science background would know better. This LPG subsidy theory sounds nice but it's impractical. I'd suggest you take a tour of the slums in your city. Find a poor family using wood/cow-dung stove and try to sell them your subsidised LPG cylinder. Let's see if they ditch their free fuel.

I'll simply assume that this LPG subsidy is not meant for the real poor because what they actually need is free education, cheap food, cheap healthcare and some means to earn more money. LPG connection won't raise them above BPL. All these LPG cylinders will end up in black market.

There are 45 govt apartments for low-grade govt employees in my private colony. These are the people who fix your sewers, maintain water supply and sweep the streets. All of those 45 apartments have LPG connections BUT all of them sell off their cylinders in black market. They all burn free wood and cow dung cakes. They refused piped LNG connection on several occasions. These are the people who will benefit from the LPG subsidy and not the real poor.


How would you make a list of people earning more than 10LPA?
I completely agree with the point you're trying to make.
People won't have Regards for anything given to them free of cost.
The more alms you give to beggars ; the number of beggars will increase & not reduce.

In my personal experience : my past hospital catered to Arogyasri patients ( state run free health scheme for BPL families in private hospitals : even major surgeries worth 3L + are done free of cost). The misuse of the scheme is so rampant that you can make out the type of people using it. Many will come loaded with obscene amount of golden jewellery, newest iPhones with a BPL card in the other hand. We used to categorize them sarcastically as (from the type of Vehicles they come in)

Scorpio - BPL
Maruti - BPL
Bullet - BPL
Bicycle - BPL etc.
In fact, an independent survey showed that, percentage of BPL families has risen to stinking 70% from 30% earlier after implementation of the scheme. Imagine 40% increase in BPL population in last 7 yrs. Most with unaccounted income & especially farmers with 100s of acres land. They're the vote bank, govt can't stop them from misusing something reserved for real BPL families. Most People don't have a feeling of minimal guilt that, they're misusing a scheme dedicated for the real needy.

But some 40% actual BPL, who share the meal reserved for patient (because they can't afford to buy one meal for the attendant (patient meal is free) @ corporate hospital canteen) , can't afford anything otherwise are benefitted too. The level of poverty is impossible for us to understand (just hand to mouth existence) . They still touch your feet when you do a successful surgery & remember you for rest of your life (which is a great feeling money can't buy) . You feel really great about the government ; by way of this scheme you're able to help them out. They couldn't have afforded the surgery otherwise & would've died (especially children with heart diseases). Treating one or two in the actual BPL group makes you forget the other 60% people misusing the scheme.

It's not that citizens are good and we have bad legislators, that's why country is in this condition; But that, we the people are inherently corrupt, thieves and rapists of the highest order, who deserve to be ruled by such politicians (who are lead criminals, thieves & rapists). Until we the people change morally, we deserve to be ruled by such politicians.
 
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@derp : sorry to disappoint you. if i am in the govt, I wouldn't have put up those links:D
That means you are from the opposition party! I would request you to convey to your superiors that they should atleast let the parliament function! Please make this resolution this new year!
 
Um, why did you remove the part about "empirical studies". Does it mean there aren't any and you were just making a point? Secondly the article doesn't say "many", just says 6.5 lakh subscribers. There is no frame of reference to say if they are "many". Lets for the sake of argument use the rural numbers given in the article. So I can assume the beneficiaries of PAHAL are LPG subscribers, so the total LPG subscribers are the 130 million + 6.5 lakh who gave up = 13.65 crores (cause 1 million = 10 lakh). Then 6.5 lakh people are what %age exactly? ~ 0.5%. So not that many.

I don't have a gas connection and use induction most of the time. Additionally I am all up for citizens taking up their part instead of government to do everything (example Swach Bharat, success or failure of which are another topic altogether). But this is complete bullshit. There are many other laws government can bring in to help poor. One of them is making a f***ing budget properly. Every year MP and MLAs get money for their constituency, most of which goes unspent (I am sure you can find actual empirical studies on it, if not let me know). One of the good things I used to hear about Nitish Kumar in first term from the horses mouth (ie actual infrastructure developers in Bihar) was, he made people go and sign in for the money. While that was a good thing, you have to wonder why the hell was it such a big deal in a democracy. Aren't the elected official supposed to do that? Why doesn't the central government make a law for forcing people to do that? Or better yet, if you don't spend your surplus, MLA/MP should not get their damn salary.

But then the "middle class" is a soft target. They don't have the votes (IMO they seldom vote but people can argue they personally do) and don't have the clout to get laws changed. I still remember Chidambram being patronising towards middle class for inflation but eating 20rs ice cream. Would he have dared said something so offensive about BPL or OBC/SC/ST? Nope.

Whether this will help BPL people? Debatable, maybe it will in some places.
 
My point is simple.

Who was getting the benefit till now?
Almost everybody who could afford a gas stove and a subscription.

Who is going to get the benefit from now on?
Definitely not the needy people who cannot afford a gas stove let alone buy cylinders @ over 400 Rs and not the people who are paying higher non subsidized cost to afford the subsidy for others.

It's mostly tax dodgers that are going to enjoy the benefit now. We have only 2.8% of the population paying taxes in the country and the ratio should be significantly higher. A lot of people in the country fall under the 10% bracket, but don't pay taxes. The tax collection from the 10% bracket is less than 10% of the total when it should be 100's of times higher considering the vast amount quantity of people that fall into this category.

Auto/cab drivers, daily wage workers and and a lot of people of other occupations. They don't pay a dime in tax, but they have houses (often given free or at heavily subsidized rates on tax money), TV's, Fridges and all modern conveniences that includes gas as well. The pseudo poor that make a decent killing from their occupations, don't pay taxes and still get all the benefits afforded by the govt on tax payers money.

Corrective measures?
Make tax filing every year (even if they have no taxable income) a mandatory requirement for subsidized gas and govt should take it seriously. Anybody who can afford gas stoves and gas cylinders @ over 400 Rs have no excuse to not file tax forms. At least make sure that people are not enjoying benefits at expense of others without doing their own duties.

Secondly, give the subsidy based on household income and not on the subscribers income. Here the biggest flaw with the process currently. Most of the people at my work place who have the gas connections in their name and have 10 Lac + income are going to transfer the connection to their wives or somebody else's name with no nil or less liability making the whole move meaningless.

Will any Govt dare to do it?
Obviously, No. Things like subsidies in the our country were always meant for appeasement and building of vote banks and in general purely for political purposes. So they won't risk any move that alienates their vote banks.
 
One of my friends also posted this on FB -
First people are asked to give up subsidy. Then the prices of non-subsidized LPG are increased by 8%. Meanwhile the prices of petrol-diesel are decreased by 1-2%, while that of Air Fuel is decreased by a whooping 10%.
All this when the price of crude oil has decreased by 8%.
 
This is what happens when people put selfish interests over national interests. They are not even willing to give up subsidy while soldiers are giving up their lives in pathankot.

Finally, when a government is plugging gaps by reducing pilferage (direct benefits transferred to bank accounts of needy) and correcting mis targeting errors(slowly removing subsidies for those who can pay) the so called rich are debating the meagre rise in their monthly costs which won't go beyond 2200-3000 at max. Talk of duties towards your nation! Lol!!
 
This is what happens when people put selfish interests over national interests. They are not even willing to give up subsidy while soldiers are giving up their lives in pathankot.

Finally, when a government is plugging gaps by reducing pilferage (direct benefits transferred to bank accounts of needy) and correcting mis targeting errors(slowly removing subsidies for those who can pay) the so called rich are debating the meagre rise in their monthly costs which won't go beyond 2200-3000 at max. Talk of duties towards your nation! Lol!!
Why did they raise the price of unsubsidized LPG when every other price was decreased?

And subsidies on LPG have nothing to do with the attack on Pathankot. And that is just another failure of the govt. When there were intelligence reports even indicating the target, then why wasn't it protected more properly.
Even yesterday Rajnath Singh appeared on TV saying that the ambush is over and yet today they killed more people.
 
http://m.firstpost.com/business/by-...est-on-oil-deregulation-lpg-next-2101053.html

To answer your second question, it is not always possible to thwart every proxy war started by some enemy state. Though I agree the government should have taken the warnings seriously, but I think there was some gaping intelligence lapse somewhere which led to this fiasco!
Dude, do you even read what you link.
If the LPG was deregulated then the price should have decreased due to the decrease in crude oil prices.

And as for the second part, the social media head of BJP had written that if Modi was PM, Pakistan would have been annihilated after 26/11.
We don't see any response from him or Modi now. And it's just shameful that even after the loss of lives of soldiers no one has come forward to take the responsibility for this lapse you speak of.
This is the same country in which PM Lal Bahadur Shastri resigned when a train derailed and resulted in the death of people.
 
Dude, do you even read what you link.
If the LPG was deregulated then the price should have decreased due to the decrease in crude oil prices.

Please post a link where it mentions that you are paying more/equal to prevailing market rates. As far as I can tell, they have reduced the subsidies this leading to an increase in price which you are referring to a price rise.

Shedding the LPG subsidy burden is crucial as the oil marketing companies push the cleaner burning cooking fuel into rural India, looking to boost the country’s household penetration to 85% from the current 65% over the next five years. Again those who can afford, should pay![DOUBLEPOST=1451850203][/DOUBLEPOST]
We don't see any response from him or Modi now. And it's just shameful that even after the loss of lives of soldiers no one has come forward to take the responsibility for this lapse you speak of.
Let the dust settle. Oh and btw, who do think is escalating the balochistan unrests?
 
Please post a link where it mentions that you are paying more/equal to prevailing market rates. As far as I can tell, they have reduced the subsidies this leading to an increase in price which you are referring to a price rise.

Shedding the LPG subsidy burden is crucial as the oil marketing companies push the cleaner burning cooking fuel into rural India, looking to boost the country’s household penetration to 85% from the current 65% over the next five years. Again those who can afford, should pay![DOUBLEPOST=1451850203][/DOUBLEPOST]
Let the dust settle. Oh and btw, who do think is escalating the balochistan unrests?
Did you even read what I had written?
Price of unsubsidized LPG have increased, while those of other fuels and especially aviation fuel was decreased by as much as 10%.
Tell me why do you fail to read other people's posts properly.
 
I cant answer your questions as you counterquestion like a layman. Kindly read about the aviation and domestic fuel industry to understand the logic
 
I cant answer your questions as you counterquestion like a layman. Kindly read about the aviation and domestic fuel industry to understand the logic
So now you are too elite to answer. Perfect.
BTW, Who was being a layman earlier in this very thread asking again and again why we were questioning the income tax system.
 
And Derp, even when people explain the reasoning to you, you don't acknowledge it and just start talking about other stuff instead.
oh he does that a lot. Whenever I discussed something, he would change the topic without acknowledging it.
 
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