Anna Hazare's fast against corruption

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Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Wrong. The main reason was that the students and the young wanted a economic liberalization, political democracy, freedom of speech and of the media etc. Corruption was one of the underlying reasons but not one of the main reasons. One of the main reasons was the pent up frustration over the government policies and its "cleansing" of people opposing Govt. policies during the cultural revolution etc.

Take that up with the prof mentioned below...was on the first page of the wiki article linked in my previous post..

According to Yan Sun, Associate Professor of Political Science at the City University of New York, it was corruption, rather than democracy as such, that lay at the root of the social dissatisfaction that led to the Tiananmen protest movement of 1989. Corruption undermines the legitimacy of the CCP, adds to economic inequality, undermines the environment, and fuels social unrest.

Economic liberalisation started in '78, tianamen was in '89, 11 years after. heh, the cultural revolution was in the 60s, what carry over could there possibly be in '89. Oh and since you mentioned it, it was the parents of those kids that lived through the cultural revolution in the 60's that supported the govts crackdown in '89 cos they did not want yet another revolution.

You've been to Beijing, maybe you want to check up with ppl there about '89. It gets lots of spin as a democracy movement in western media.

LOL @ comparing a 1000 sq km 'country' with a 3L+ sq km one. How intelligent.

You know Shripad hinted at this earlier but we have a system that does not allow any bureaucrat to get convicted presently. We have no laws that allow for repatriation of any illegal money.

So does that mean we cannot achieve something here. I don't think its that hopeless.

 

[avi]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Okay, if tomo someone or Anna himself starts a fast to stop piracy, then what would be the situation ? People would delete all movies / songs / TV shows / p0rn ? Piracy is also an evil :bleh:

I am aware of that thread created few days ago that piracy can do good things also. This post is not about piracy is good or bad !

 

[chiron]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

lol you can't delete clouds

 

[agantuk]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Is Hazare's group confused? Given below a series of statements from their group.

'Govt is not concerned about Anna's health'
'If anything happens to Anna, govt. is responsible'
'We will not allow govt. to take Anna to hospital'

I mean WTF. First, govt. didn't ask him to fast. When he did, they asked him to stop. He didn't. They still tried / will try again to take him to hospital. He / they refused. Now they say govt. is not concerned and are 'responsible' if something happens to him. More than anything happening to him, I think someone from his group will do something to him. Might be those crorepati Bhushans. Or may be the smart IITian.

 

[avi]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Time to Heil Hitler :bleh:

@chiron - of course you cannot delete,because it has CD, you can only break / ruin CDs by artificial rain :bleh:

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Time to Heil Hitler :bleh:

Wouldnt that make this government the French panzy?

 

[NinByChoice]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^ You really think that is a solution?

Why not? If the size is going to be a hindrance for almost every single initiative, it makes sense to restructure the union.

 

[agantuk]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^ I don't agree. It isn't like there is only one solutoin for every problem. Different things can be tried too.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

All I see in this whole business is deceit of self and others. Most people of our nation are by nature corrupt at various grades and the politicians are corrupt because they are also part and reflection of the same people. Isn't it the common people who abused their voting power for money and put the power into the hands of these politicians . Isn't these the common people who are abusing their power to force a bill to be passed in a totally undemocratic way. Anna has on so many occasions insulted the national flag. Why can't the law take its course? Would the people allow it as it should be. Aren't they abusing their power to keep the law from taking its course. Its the same in the case of Telangana protests in Hyderabad as well. So many of these so called protesters have indulged in activities that warrant police cases and punishment. Aren't the people abusing their power to keep the law from taking its course? People want the corrupt politicians to be punished, but what about their own mis-deeds like tax evasion. If the law wants to take its course against the common people some day, guess want, wouldn't these be the same people that are again going to abuse the power of masses to protest their way out of it?

Politicians are often accused by people for not paying for the electricity they use and it is also claimed a part of corruption, but guess who else doesn't pay for the electricity they use? Farmers and most people in villages and outskirts of towns. Most of those people never install a meter or pay a dime for the electricity they use. When I was in Chandigarh the people in a small village on the outskirts of the city never paid for electricity and most of them were using electricity illegally. When the supply was cut for these people, they came on to the road to protest and burnt 3 RTC buses and badly damaged another (cost lakhs of rupees of public money that they themselves never contribute to) and they had their way in the end. Isn't that an abuse of power and can act of corruption?

It is amusing to see all these people proclaiming that they are in the fight against corruption when they themselves are corrupt. How can the act of getting a bill passed forcefully (which in itself is an abuse of power and a form of corruption) crub corruption in the long run. Assuming that such an all powerful body created out of this bill will not abuse its power and takes care of the politicians and its impact bubbles down to the common people and its time the common man is also held accountable for his mis-deeds, what guarantee is there that the people will not abuse the power of the masses again to protect themselves and allow corruption to prevail?

 

[vantheman5211]

^^ man your writing is kickass.always interesting to read your posts.

 

[kippu]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

after a week of grabbing headlines and paralyzing the government ,although giving the common man a topic to talk about , the government is going to "discuss" the points raised by anna , not pass it , not make it a bill but discuss , and i am pretty sure nothing is going to come out of discussing it , anna team will sell it as government bending over , government will sell it as we really didnot do anything , it has saved the prime minister from the opposition for the corruption scandal that was brewing over , now it will be swept off the table.....

the real winners of this week? : The Hoot Story Page - media, press, subcontinent, media ethics, media watch, media research, media conflict, media gender, community radio, Unescos

175 crores . , imagine that :|

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

after a week of grabbing headlines and paralyzing the government ,although giving the common man a topic to talk about , the government is going to "discuss" the points raised by anna , not pass it , not make it a bill but discuss , and i am pretty sure nothing is going to come out of discussing it , anna team will sell it as government bending over , government will sell it as we really didnot do anything , it has saved the prime minister from the opposition for the corruption scandal that was brewing over , now it will be swept off the table.....

I see so you say this bill will never pass then. Even in the winter session ?

The idea was to get their bill discussed in parliament so thats a victory of sorts they have achieved here.

 

[kippu]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

the bill in its present form will not be passed ever, thats what the government said from the beginning and thats what will happen

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

sure, but there will be a lokpal bill passed at some point is what i wanted to convey.

There is no way out for this govt otherwise.

 

[avi]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

This is a really good video. Though video emphasizes on all scams happened, why they are brainwashing everyone that India will become Tax Free country & no one has to pay taxes for next 20 years. WHY ???

 

[pauldmps]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

the bill in its present form will not be passed ever, thats what the government said from the beginning and thats what will happen

True. But the govt. wanted to pass its version of the bill. That wouldn't happen either.

Most of the points (not all) present in Anna's bill will be finalized. I'm sure of that. The civil society has also said that they are ready to compromise if alternate bills are passed on some other issues like the Judiciary.

The whole protest was to mount enough pressure on the govt. Now the govt. is under tremendous pressure. So the civil society wins this round.

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

So what are Anna's three demands

- lower bureaucracy be covered
- state lok ayuktas
- grievance redressal ie a citizens charter

Two out three appear doable that lower bureaucracy thing might be iffy.

Everything else he doesn't care about, so long as those three are included.

The question i'm wondering is what will the future fallout of this movement be ?

He went from nobody to everybody in parliament saluting him yesterday.

Does this mean any group with a grievance can hold the govt hostage in the future. Threaten a fast and thats all it takes.

 

[kippu]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

telengana guy kcr went on fast i think 2 years back or so , then they promised him a telengana state and thats all of that ... lots of people fast , but whoever has the media in hand , then he wins that round...

state lok ayuktas will not be done ,

central govt cannot promise that , that just changes the system

lower bureaucracy wont be done either , the left ,bjp and congress are against that

citizens charter might go through

 

[renegade]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Does this mean any group with a grievance can hold the govt hostage in the future. Threaten a fast and thats all it takes.

How can you make such a sweeping statement. He had the support of people across India on this issue and that is how the govt was 'held hostage'. I don't think we would even have such a long thread if people could not relate to his demands.

Govt gives a damn about someone fasting. One fellow did die fasting against the mining of a river, the same time when ramdev was getting all the attention.

And well if you look at other issues where people do hold the govt machinery hostage by rioting, burning public property or going on strike. They do get their demands, on issues like reservations for example. Or most recent example given in this thread about stealing electricity openly.

 

[pauldmps]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

How can you make such a sweeping statement. He had the support of people across India on this issue and that is how the govt was 'held hostage'. I don't think we would even have such a long thread if people could not relate to his demands.

Govt gives a damn about someone fasting. One fellow did die fasting against the mining of a river, the same time when ramdev was getting all the attention.

And well if you look at other issues where people do hold the govt machinery hostage by rioting, burning public property or going on strike. They do get their demands, on issues like reservations for example. Or most recent example given in this thread about stealing electricity openly.

+1 to all of that. Also to add that the govt. was guilty enough to give up.