Anna Hazare's fast against corruption

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Can anyone wonder which democracy receives real citizen participation? National elections or this campaign?

If democracy means coalition politics then this type of democracy needs to be booted out. The indian politicians have shaped democracy to fit their needs. The citizens need to shape democracy to fit their needs too. After all, if they cannot echo the people's sentiments then how can be called the people's representatives?

Democracy thik hai, lekin thoda change hona mangta (democracy is okay, but it needs some tweaking)
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Rajdeep Sardesai's open letter to Anna Hazare

Dear Anna,

I write this to you neither as a fawning cheerleader nor a cynical journalist, but rather as a proud Indian like you. Let me applaud you at the very outset for having brought the issue of corruption to the national centrestage. You have worked tirelessly for more than two decades in exposing corruption in Maharashtra but Ralegan Siddhi is a long way from Delhi which is perhaps why television channels hadn't featured your contribution prominently till now. An opinion poll we did just a month ago suggested that more people had heard of yoga guru Baba Ramdev than a tireless fakir-like crusader from a Western Maharashtra village.

All that has now changed. Your latest fast has made you a household name. You've brought the mighty Indian state to its knees. You've encouraged millions of anonymous Indians to come out on the streets and get a voice. You've exposed a political class, suffering from a grave moral crisis, to the wider world. You've empowered those who've felt lost in a new India where wealth is the sole presiding deity. You've become a symbol of change and hope at a time when a scam culture has assaulted the conscience of the nation. You've even shown that the Marathas, a community that has failed to conquer Delhi since losing the Third Battle of Panipat in 1761, can indeed take the national capital by storm. But in every battle there must come a time when you must call a halt. That time may well be approaching.

Gandhi, the greatest Indian of them all, from whom you claim to derive your inspiration, never went on a fast unto death by refusing medication. For Gandhi, the idea of fasting was a form of self-purification, a fast could not be undertaken, as he said, "out of anger. Anger is a short-term madness." Yes, there is anger on the streets today, an almost volcanic eruption of the lava that has been simmering for decades. Your genius lies in being able to channel that popular anger against corruption into a well-defined goal of a strong anti-corruption law and, importantly, doing so in a peaceful manner. The real danger though now is that a peaceful, non-violent movement runs the risk of being overwhelmed by what Dr Ambedkar, the great constitutionalist, described a fast unto death as, by the "grammar of anarchy."

There have been some signs of this in the last 48 hours that are truly worrying. The gherao of the homes of Members of Parliament may be visually appealing, but it encourages an anti-politician 'sab neta chor hai' rhetoric that could further destroy faith in parliamentary democracy. The increasingly strident language being used by certain members of Team Anna - a term which creates the regrettable impression of you being surrounded by a coterie - is to be best avoided at a time when a rational dialogue is called for.

Only two days ago, a colleague of mine was assaulted in the heart of the capital by a drunk biker gang waving the Tricolour and chanting 'I am Anna' slogans. The frenzy being built up in the media by hyper-ventilating news channels and demagogic acolytes could easily transform a genuine people's movement into a lumpen expression of mob fury. It's a transformation that could end up destroying the hard-earned credibility of your struggle.

Ram Lila is not Mumbai's Azad Maidan nor is it the village square in Ralegan Siddhi. This is not some battle to stop the local thug from shutting his liquor shop. Here, there are multiple agendas that require dexterous negotiation and not mere sloganeering. The sight of gangster Abu Salem's girlfriend Monica Bedi parading Mumbai's streets with an Anna cap should convince you of the dangers of reducing the fight against corruption to a well-choreographed prime time TV spectacle.

It is true no fast can be called off till the primary goal has been achieved. If that goal is to have the Jan Lok Pal bill passed exactly as you desire then that is a maximalist position which is never easy to accommodate overnight. Gandhi himself often spoke of the 'beauty' of compromise. Without doubt the fact that you have forced an obdurate government to fast-forward the Lok Pal Bill and accept most of your proposals is itself a major achievement. But to ram through a Bill that has been hanging fire for decades within the space of a few days without a sustained and truly inclusive dialogue with all stakeholders would be self-defeating.

Yes, one recognizes you have little trust in a discredited government that only ten days ago, arrogantly and foolishly, first defamed, then arrested you and now salutes you. A flip-flop government sorely missing a strong political authority has taken refuge in parliamentary procedure when the simpler way out to atone for their sins would have been an unqualified apology for your arrest followed by a withdrawal of the government Bill and a fresh start to the pre-legislation consultation. Yes, you are hurt, and rightly so, by the government's attitude, but this is the moment to show your heart is much bigger than the petty minds who reside in official bungalows. It's time for practicality, not prestige. Why not, for example, get the government to commit to a special session of Parliament in six to eight weeks on an amended Lok Pal Bill so that a new, well-considered law becomes a Diwali gift to the nation?

Post-script: I have framed a picture of our meeting earlier this week. The caption reads: "When zero met hero!". India is not Anna, nor is Anna India, but you are now an icon for millions. Please don't allow a personality cult to shadow your ultimate gift of common sense.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Isnt that the same Rajdeep Sardesai who himself was embroiled in that phone tapping controversy and was said to have sided/helped the congress for govt. formation? I'll write an open letter to him so that he stops speaking out of his a$$.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Yes, he is the same Rajdeep :p

and why don't you really write an open letter now ? It can be shared in FB :)
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Renegade said:
How can you make such a sweeping statement. He had the support of people across India on this issue and that is how the govt was 'held hostage'. I don't think we would even have such a long thread if people could not relate to his demands.

Govt gives a damn about someone fasting. One fellow did die fasting against the mining of a river, the same time when ramdev was getting all the attention.

And well if you look at other issues where people do hold the govt machinery hostage by rioting, burning public property or going on strike. They do get their demands, on issues like reservations for example. Or most recent example given in this thread about stealing electricity openly.

+1. There is always objection over good things from groups of people in every country & every century (initially) because they thinks it might be a direct threat to THEIR SPECIAL POWER.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

376504e57bc4ab98c1.jpg


had to post it here :p
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Read that Santosh Hegde left A - Team, is true ? If yes, then why ?
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

20:57 PM - PM says: Parliament has spoken, will of Parliament is will of the people.

20:53 PM - Vilasrao Deshmukh, Sandeep Dikshit leave for Ramlila Ground to hand over PM Manmohan Singh's letter to Anna Hazare.

20:38 PM - RPN Singh, MoS Petroleum says if the house was unanimous in passing the resolution, there is no need for a vote. Nobody abstained, nobody disagreed.

20:31 PM

Rajya Sabha has been adjourned as well after taking a "sense of the resolution".

What that means is Parliament has agreed to Anna's demands. Hazare will end his fast tomorrow.

What thumping of desk means is that it conveys vote and sense of support

20:19 PM

Quick takes...

Lokpal resolution adopted in the Lok Sabha

Resolution accepts Anna's three demands, with riders

Resolution adopted by desk thumping

Government stands its ground, no voice vote in Parliament

'Sense of the resolution' will now be sent to Anna Hazare by the Speaker. Vilasrao Deshmukh is messenger boy.

The resolution will be sent to the standing committee which will work out the riders

Anna will end his fast tomorrow at 10 am.

Now.. what riders ?? Always a loophole left to exploit ??
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

kippu said:
state lok ayuktas will not be done ,

central govt cannot promise that , that just changes the system
Yeah, reading the parliament transcripts and cpl of your guys do not like that idea at all. do not want centre telling them what to do.

Changing the system is to do with messing with the federal structure we have.

kippu said:
lower bureaucracy wont be done either , the left ,bjp and congress are against that
what about this one ?

kippu said:
citizens charter might go through
govts idea of a seperate grievance addressal bill in theory should be even better than JLP. course depends how strong they make it.

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Renegade said:
How can you make such a sweeping statement. He had the support of people across India on this issue and that is how the govt was 'held hostage'. I don't think we would even have such a long thread if people could not relate to his demands.
Its an example of populism and the govt acceding or at least look like they did. Course lets see what they deliver in the end. Tho i think they don't have a choice now or they wont come back two years from now.

Renegade said:
And well if you look at other issues where people do hold the govt machinery hostage by rioting, burning public property or going on strike. They do get their demands, on issues like reservations for example. Or most recent example given in this thread about stealing electricity openly.
Yeah, but those ppl don't ask for national legislation to be passed or do they ?

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broadway said:
Can anyone wonder which democracy receives real citizen participation? National elections or this campaign?
national elections for sure. 60% voted in the last one, how much is that ? 700 million.

You want to tell me AH got that many supporters ?

But when's the last time a debate got so closely followed and ppl were talking about the mechanics of how bills are made & passed. Very educational, certainly put both houses in the national spotlight.

broadway said:
If democracy means coalition politics then this type of democracy needs to be booted out.
I prefer voted out.

broadway said:
The indian politicians have shaped democracy to fit their needs. The citizens need to shape democracy to fit their needs too. After all, if they cannot echo the people's sentiments then how can be called the people's representatives?
Here's the deal...

some politicians think ppl have no right to tell them anything unless they themselves get elected into office, thats bordering on tyranny.

some ppl think they need to force the system when it does not respond, thats bordering on anarchy.

This movement is somewhere in between.

broadway said:
Democracy thik hai, lekin thoda change hona mangta (democracy is okay, but it needs some tweaking)
No tweaking, it would seem all that is required is for leaders to listen more. JPN from lok satta was saying it would be a sad country indeed if every time you wanted to get the attention of parliament somebody has to go on a fast.

They say of the ppl, by the ppl, and for the ppl. but there is this impression that parliament is just not accessible to the common man.

That needs to change.

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ggt said:
376504e57bc4ab98c1.jpg


had to post it here :p

Corporate corruption. no corps no cwg scam nor 2g scam.

hmm, now what does this lokpal bill have to say about these corporates i wonder.

GOI never heard of them so at least they are respectful of the bribe givers :eek:hyeah:

..but JLP did, who the heck is going to bribe them. They cant afford to bribe anyone.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Interestingly I keep seeing tata ads in support of Hazare when they too were involved in the 2g scam. Its great how people are happy once they find someone to pin their blame on.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Right and that's the central point in this blog post i slammed earlier :ashamed:

avi said:
Am beginning to have second thoughts about one of the points raised here. take this one

The other, equally entertaining part has been the Congress-led UPA government's complete and visible bankruptcy of ideas to tackle an agitation outside party structures. Much the same happened before the Emergency when Jayaparakash Naryan led a movement that cut across party lines against the Indira Gandhi led Congress government, which panicked and declared an Emergency.
They can handle agitation when its within the confines of what they know, a curve ball from leftfield and they were lost

t'd be fun to see who were the advisors who landed a wimp like Prime Minister Manmohan Singh into the Lok Pal soup. A party that can't argue its case against a retired army truck driver whose only strength really is a kind of stolid integrity and a talent for skipping meals doesn't deserve to be in power. Power goes to people who love it. Anna Hazare loves nothing more than power.

Just read what an MP from TN had to say..

DR. M. THAMBIDURAI (KARUR): The first all-party meeting was called by the Prime Minister. When did he call it? It was called after he had constituted a Drafting Committee comprising of five Cabinet Ministers and five persons from Shri Anna Hazare’s team. Before that, they had never consulted other political parties.

This is the first blunder that the UPA Government did. They had faith in Shri Anna Hazare and therefore, they did it. Afterwards, when the problem started, they called all of us, asking for the suggestions of other political parties. What is the point in it, after you have done everything? Why did they call another meeting now? It was because Shri Anna Hazare went on an indefinite fast and the problem started to become bigger. They do not know how to solve it now. That is why, they called us once again.

Afterwards, now they have given us the chance to discuss it here. At the same time, this is a new situation that they have created. Therefore, this tense situation is created by the UPA Government and not by others.

How are UPA going to make this bill go away ?

Each time they push back AH goes on indefnite hunger strike.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

right now they have bought time , regarding resolution , they also passed a resolution to get the POK back ...we know where that is now
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

broadway said:
Can anyone wonder which democracy receives real citizen participation? National elections or this campaign?

If democracy means coalition politics then this type of democracy needs to be booted out. The indian politicians have shaped democracy to fit their needs. The citizens need to shape democracy to fit their needs too. After all, if they cannot echo the people's sentiments then how can be called the people's representatives?

Democracy thik hai, lekin thoda change hona mangta (democracy is okay, but it needs some tweaking)

This is definitely not democracy the way it was conceived as form of administration. Democracy has provisions for active participation of the people, but it also requires people to be responsible. People are required to utilize their rights and perform their duties as citizens of the country. But the people of our country never bother about their duties and grossly abuse their rights. The only relation this campaign has to the word democracy is in the most literal sense. Democracy in the most literal sense means People Power and the people who lent their support to this campaign have simply abused their power to shape the administration (not democracy) to their current needs. If our administration hasn't long ceased to be a democracy, it has now if and when the govt agree to Anna's demands without taking the opinions of the rest of the people. With sufficient support and people power even the khap panchayats can blackmail the govt into passing a bill to legalize honor killings in our country, but in the end it would still be just an abuse of people power to get their demands met by the govt.

And Yeah, even Anna Hazare has proved to be just as corrupt as any other person in the govt or any other person in the country. If he has any sense of duty as a citizen of the country, he would respect the law and he would at least now submit himself to the law for all the national flag abuse he had done and let the law take its course rather than using the people power to shield him. Most freedom fighters during the British rule were at least dutiful enough to respect the law even if they opposed the govt. Whatever they did against the govt, they submitted themselves to the law as and when required. I guess Anna is a breed apart from the rest.

Fundamental Duties of a Citizen of India

* To abide by the Constitution and respect its ideals and institutions, the National Flag and the National Anthem;

* To cherish and follow the noble ideals which inspired our national struggle for freedom;

* To uphold and protect the sovereignty, unity and integrity of India;

* To defend the country and render national service when called upon to do so;

* To promote harmony and the spirit of common brotherhood amongst all the people of India transcending religious, linguistic and regional or sectional diversities; to renounce practices derogatory to the dignity of women;

* To value and preserve the rich heritage of our composite culture;

* To protect and improve the natural environment including forests, lakes, rivers and wild life, and to have compassion for living creatures;

* To develop the scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform;

* To safeguard public property and to abjure violence;

* To strive towards excellence in all spheres of individual and collective activity so that the nation constantly rises to higher levels of endeavor and achievement.

How many of these called supporters of this movement abide by even the first duty listed above before they abuse their right to freedom without blinking an eyelid. I see this entire campaign as people using their power to fight against our political system and the administration, it never was a fight against corruption as the very people who are fighting also indulge in corruption every day of their lives.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I don't know how a rally of mindless people running around in support of Anna with no knowledge about the provisions of the bill can be called a success, parliament is the supreme institution we have and we can in no way disregard the constitution.

More importantly, i CONDEMN the way of passing a resolution cause someone is doing 'fast unto death'. NO-WAY can few 50k to 1lakh crowd support can express the largest democracy in the world. And that too with most of the crowd of 20's and 30's hooligans.

The ways of the Anna way criticized in almost all media circles too coz of this single reason.

This doesn't mean Anna's cause is not right, he is the most influential personality who has taken over the scene. I support in his cause fully, but some provisions in his bill are not what I agree with.

I think just a mostly 20's youth running around or Bollywood stars coming in support doesn't make a movement success, after all we can in no way match the knowledge and experience of Pranab, Chidambram, Manmohan or any other person in our center. They might be corrupt and not willing to pass the bill... but even some matters raised by them regarding the powers of Lokpal are genuine.

I specially don't like the direct inquiry by Lokapal of PM without any safeguards. Because this undermines the very supremacy of the Prime Ministers Office and gives a bad view of our national leadership in foreign circles. Even Pakistan was able to raise questions on our office after Anna's agitation.

There are caveats in all versions of the bill, all I want is proper discussion and provisions in the bill, so the best of all worlds can be accommodated, not this "pass or die" attitude.

And its strange how people see corruption, my very good friend is all gag over rally and sat there, says corruption must end in all quarters and I am 'aam-aadmi', but he applied for a license, and paid 700 Rs to instructor to pass the exam this past week because he doesn't know driving.

And the very next day he was back at rally, without even realizing what he had done...

What I believe is that the law should punish the person giving the bribe too, so that he has a fear in mind that if the corrupt officer is caught in future, he too will have to face the wrath of law cause investigations would reveal the source of money.

Otherwise, I could always say to an officer "I will pay 1 crore, do my work", he says no, I can be caught, I say " Make it 25 crore", and he think the money is too large to get by, just this one time, I won't be caught and he will indulge. And I will keep offering coz I know I can't be caught.

THAT has to end.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Nation relieved, celebrates Anna's victory- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

Why the media/sheeple love Anna Hazare - he's a true showman!

Check this out :

The 74-year-old Gandhian accepted a glass of tender coconut water mixed with honey from a Dalit and a Muslim girl -- Simran and Ikrah -- at 10:20 AM on the dais at the Ramlila Ground ending his fast that began on August 16.

Why would someone fighting against corruption, stoop low and play the caste/religion card? Especially when he himself knows he's not secular.

As always, his timing is impeccable. He could've ended his fast last night. Nothing new happened today morning AFAIK, so what was he waiting for? Better crowds in the morning perhaps? And frankly someone fasting this long would've gulped down his refreshment, not been posing for the cameras.

Flanked by his team members, including Shanti Bhushan, Prashant Bhushan, Arvind Kejriwal, Kiran Bedi and Manish Sisodia, Hazare said what has been achieved in Parliament yesterday is a victory of the people of India, democracy and those assembled in Ramlila Ground.

I'm sorry, did he say people of India and democracy? Where? In his tiny floating kingdom? Does he think 0.0001% of the Indian population sitting at his ground is a democracy?

If he's that keen on representing democracy, let him stand for elections and have his derrière handed back to him. Oh wait, next on his agenda is modifying the election system :p

And before I get the standard - "oh atleast he's doing something" - please don't. Everyone's too lazy to take responsibility themselves and are passing the buck once again :p

He's smart and capitalising on your laziness to build his brand. Yes lets go wave a couple of flags and support Anna Hazare instead of running around to avoid paying that bribe.

Throughout this anti corruption episode, I've only wondered what Anna's end game is. What is his reason for taking up this challenge?

I acknowledge and respect the change he's brought to Ralegan Siddhi.. but that was his native village, something he had a connection with. So why the corruption thing suddenly? Did he get bored of villages? Did he have to pay a bribe? What was it that catapulted him to the cause?
 
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