Anna Hazare's fast against corruption

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Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

When the people want a change, why the eff should it take time? 3months, 6 months is fine, but 10-15 yrs?

This is the problem, you expect something as major as this to be done in 3-6 months !!! completely unrealistic. Thats the expectation thats been given to you by the media.

Every politician upto the PM can be called up for any reason whatsoever by some unelected group.

And that RTI act is almost toothless man.

I wouldn't quite say that, its resulted in lots of action. It's been a signficant step to what we had previously.

LOL! First of, you think a time period of 10 years is justified? Bullshit!
Lokpal was first introduced in 1969, how much more time should it take for the parliament to come to a consensus and pass it?

Not workable in its current form !

You want to whine about that or work out the differences like an adult.

If its been going that long then that only shows how impractical the idea is. WHo says this is the best way of achieving tranparency ?

Just that this is the only movement that makes big promises so every body thinks Hazare is God.

WhHy has this been brought up all of a sudden, only after the scandals has this bill actually gotten public support isn't it.

Was very quiet before, never heard of lok pal until oct of last year.

 

[blufox]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I just mentioned my concern

Harvey Dent - "You Either Die A Hero Or Live Long Enough Too See Youself Become The Villain"

I dont think this guy would die like a hero like Gandhi Ji but i am sure he would become a villain (corrupt) after getting the power... Just few days back Ramdev baba did this anshan thing what happend? after getting few dandas he just dropped the idea lol...

I am not against Anna but there is no guarantee that he wouldn't become corrupt after getting the power... Money can buy people also

Too much of cynicism...eh?

Who cares what you *think*?

Facts and actions speak louder than what some keyboard ninja hatori thinks behind an IP.

 

[Hades.]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

This is why I am saying it again, do read up on this man. Anna has been fighting against anti social elements since Ramdev was a kid.

I am not denying that he has done good things for Maharashtra... I've seen many great people getting corrupt after getting the power... We would talk on this topic after the lokpal bill would get passed... After that everything would get cleared that whetherhe is a dubious person or genuine...

Dont be such a negative Nancy.

i am not a pessimist...

Do you even know the good things he has done for Maharashtra. He has even brought down powerful politicians from Maharashtra.

Sure he must have but Congress is a politician party which has been in power for years... They really wouldn't let this guy to change the things that they dont want...

Who cares what you *think*?

And who cares what you think... And what Hazare thinks... We would only get too see his true face when the dust will settle down... Let the lokpal bill get passed then we will see what he is doing for the country and how much money he is making...

 

[anuragingle]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Hello People,

Heres what I think about the whole Anna vs UPA Controversy

1. Do you think any goverment be it the UPA, Congress, BJP or even the CPI-M etc will give in to Anna's demand just because he goes on a fast? To expect this is the hieght of being naive.

2. Anna wanted to hold a fast in the center of Delhi, wouldnt the crowds of people with Anna have seriously caused inconvinience to the common man who is just going about to earn his daily wages?

Gandhiji never went and started a hunger strike in a prominent place, he always did it in obscure places and still managed to affect everybody.

3. Will the Jan Lokpal Bill be really effective against corruption? we already have lots of laws to tackle corruption but people either dont know about them or they get subverted by money power. Even if the Jan Lokpal bill becomes a reality

whats to say our creative polticians wont find a way to go around it?

4. Why do i feel that out of a 100 indians 99 will have no problem earning money by bending the law a little even it is not the moral thing to do? and these are the common people not politicians or businessmen

I dont know how India has come to this stage and what the solution would be, but day by day India is becoming a difficult place to live in, sad to say

P.S. lets not go about and have an ultra patriotic thread bashing spree but lets try to analyze the issues raised in an intelligent manner

 

[kippu]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

first he said fill the jails...i guess that didnot work out fine , now he asks government people to not go to work not knowing that the govt employees are the most corrupt of them all, i hope you guys realize that this "revolution" / protest is largely in the urban areas , rest of the country is just going on their work

 

[panther]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I Hope this joker anna get what he deserve all he want is publicity, he doesn't have gut to form a party and contest election, this bill is made by the elected Representative of this country people who have won election by getting votes from people of india. who is he? who is he representing? he should go and file in a court, instead of this nautanki, if people want another goverment in place, they can do it in another election, nothing will be achieved by doing such nonsense.

 

[iamnew]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Most people are too lazy to fight against something thats wrong.At least support the people who are trying to make a difference.

 

[JPL]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I Hope this joker anna get what he deserve all he want is publicity, he doesn't have gut to form a party and contest election, this bill is made by the elected Representative of this country people who have won election by getting votes from people of india. who is he? who is he representing? he should go and file in a court, instead of this nautanki, if people want another goverment in place, they can do it in another election, nothing will be achieved by doing such nonsense.

The least you can do is show some respect to an old man, who is doing this fight for the people who have no voice, at all.

 

[m-jeri]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Why are people going this much about this guy?

Say this bill is approved. What do u expect will change? That has to be enforced by some govt people. And the decision making process will take its sweet time.

What the system we have will go on for ever. nothing IS going to change.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Hello People,

Heres what I think about the whole Anna vs UPA Controversy

1. Do you think any goverment be it the UPA, Congress, BJP or even the CPI-M etc will give in to Anna's demand just because he goes on a fast? To expect this is the hieght of being naive.

2. Anna wanted to hold a fast in the center of Delhi, wouldnt the crowds of people with Anna have seriously caused inconvinience to the common man who is just going about to earn his daily wages?

Gandhiji never went and started a hunger strike in a prominent place, he always did it in obscure places and still managed to affect everybody.

3. Will the Jan Lokpal Bill be really effective against corruption? we already have lots of laws to tackle corruption but people either dont know about them or they get subverted by money power. Even if the Jan Lokpal bill becomes a reality

whats to say our creative polticians wont find a way to go around it?

4. Why do i feel that out of a 100 indians 99 will have no problem earning money by bending the law a little even it is not the moral thing to do? and these are the common people not politicians or businessmen

I dont know how India has come to this stage and what the solution would be, but day by day India is becoming a difficult place to live in, sad to say

P.S. lets not go about and have an ultra patriotic thread bashing spree but lets try to analyze the issues raised in an intelligent manner

I agree with you mostly. But -

3. There is no law that can exercise itself without the government having anything to do with. Lokpal is different that way. A feasible Jan Lokpal is the best we can do, legally speaking. As I had said, corruption is not a politician-only thing and eradicating corruption completely is fantasy. To really have an effect, we as a society have to change.

 

[chiron]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I Hope this joker anna get what he deserve all he want is publicity, he doesn't have gut to form a party and contest election, this bill is made by the elected Representative of this country people who have won election by getting votes from people of india. who is he? who is he representing? he should go and file in a court, instead of this nautanki, if people want another goverment in place, they can do it in another election, nothing will be achieved by doing such nonsense.

How democratic is our democracy when it is ruled by party politics? The the only democratic way to come up with a lokpal bill would be a referendum for each of the clauses mentioned (bill obviously proposed by the elected representatives and not one made by Hazare & co) as it is a bill that directly affects the lawmakers and hence they cannot pass it without bias. The issue is essentially one of a loophole in the system which unfortunately wasn't forseen when the constitution was written.

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Why are people going this much about this guy?

Say this bill is approved. What do u expect will change? That has to be enforced by some govt people. And the decision making process will take its sweet time.

What the system we have will go on for ever. nothing IS going to change.

Same was said about RTI, and look what happened. I have personally successfully used RTI twice till now to get results.

Same with this bill. With the scope of this bill and RTI already in place, the people which we elect can be held responsible and asked the questions. The combination of Lokpal and RTI can do wonders. When something becomes the matter of public record accessible to all and ability to question these people with obligation of response / explanation, it gives some chance for a common citizen.



------------------------------------ (just to make sure whatever posted below is not directed @ m-jeri , but some others who are questioning the role of Anna )



And people talking about who is Anna to ask for anything, he is a common citizen and activist. Every one of us has or should ideally have the right to ask questions and should be in a position to hold those we elect responsible for their actions. We should not have to wait for 5 years to get justice or change. This is what Lokpal is all about.

The Lokpal format proposed by Anna and other activists is strong enough to even punish the people involved in the process of fact finding, clerical work and people involved in lokpal itself if they themselves cheat or does not do their job on time. And includes all the people who previously could not be held responsible for their actions. At most, we could vote them out next time. But with lokpal bill they will have to pay for their crimes.

This is why this bill and it being presented correctly in front of the parliament is very important.

And do not go blabbering about parliament having the end say in all this. The bill and concept of lokpal is designed in a way that this division cannot have any interference from governing body. And it starts from the formation of the commitee to the election of lokpal. This is why government is even listning to him or having discussions with all these people.

Getting the bill passed is responsibility of the Parliament, but drafting the bill, finalizing the end form of the bill, and formation of lokayukta is suppose to be joint effort of government plus people like Anna who are chosen for their social work, social activity, their skills and their track record. This is why what this guy says is important and must be heard. He is part of the drafting committee.

I am sure those who are questioning this guy didnt even know these facts. He just didnt wake up on fine day and decided to protest against this. He is part of the drafting committee and is suppose to have equal say in what the bill looks like in the end. At least that was the original aim of this exercise until government backtracked and introduced its own version of the bill.

 

[chiron]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Why are people going this much about this guy?

Say this bill is approved. What do u expect will change? That has to be enforced by some govt people. And the decision making process will take its sweet time.

What the system we have will go on for ever. nothing IS going to change.

Do you really think none among the people who are speaking out in support of Hazare realize the contradiction in the situation, in a democratic setup? However, the question is who else is there to ask the question and get as much coverage? And is it really fine to leave things be when things, saying nothing is going to change when they are so clearly going wrong...

 

[Decan]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD7fCRY7J94&feature=youtu.be

and also this Exit from Eden an article from 2003 gives some insight into the man.

In any case Anna Hazare or the drama of all that is happening today is not the main issue for me, it is the authority to be set up that is bad in any form. Corruption occurs because there is more of Government in our lives, because of the arbitrariness of decision making. Because a license has to be obtained you pay bribes so that you get an advantage, and of course it is the final consumer who pays for the corruption in one way or the other. If there is no license to be obtained, there will be no bribes. The most transparent and free societies are the least corrupt. We cannot solve this issue by adding more layers to the Government, if anything it will make the situation worse. Kindly go through the following link which explains this very well:

http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2011/08/14/faq-why-is-anna-hazare-wrong-and-lok-pal-a-bad-idea/

Of course status quo is not the answer. We need more economic reforms, police reforms, judicial reforms, electoral reforms to build a fairer and freer society than we already are.

Also, lets understand Anna Hazare is just the mask, the Pied Piper leading the masses, but does he himself realize where he is taking them? Do we really know where we are being lead to? Please read more about the background of the real force behind them, the Bhushans, and their writings on this matter. Their main objective for this bill is not to erase corruption, that is just the lilting tune for the masses, they really want to control the Government's decision making abilities with this body and roll back the reforms started since the early 90s. Do we really want to go back to those days? Think and then support.

In short I don't support either the JanLokpal or any Lokpal for that matter, I want more transparency and less of Government in my life!

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Why are people going this much about this guy?

Because in Maha, Hazare is seen as a father figure. Therefore they take this detention as a personal insult. Was discussing elsewhere and this guy said 'he does not question father figures'

WHAT !!! :O

Do we live in a democracy or a theocracy. We most certainly do not want to avoid questioning ppl especially when they have this much impact.

There is lot of emotion involved here with the maha ppl that i think might be affecting objectivity, but it seems in control here.

There is lot of ppl abusing this movement for their own ends as well. Wy was Ramdev allowed to get involved in this affair. In the end they left him out of the drafting. And he went on hunger strike as well.

 

[blufox]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Because in Maha, Hazare is seen as a father figure. Therefore they take this detention as a personal insult. Was discussing elsewhere and this guy said 'he does not question father figures'

WHAT !!! :O

Do we live in a democracy or a theocracy. We most certainly do not want to avoid questioning ppl especially when they have this much impact.

There is lot of emotion involved here with the maha ppl that i think might be affecting objectivity, but it seems in control here.

There is lot of ppl abusing this movement for their own ends as well. Wy was Ramdev allowed to get involved in this affair. In the end they left him out of the drafting. And he went on hunger strike as well.

I was in Maha for 4 years. Never heard of him, so I doubt if he is considered a father figure.

What made you propose this theory of targeting only Maharashtrian people?

Ridiculous? don't you think?

PS:- I do not belong to Maharashtra.

 

[broadway]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I think people are confused.

Do the methods matter if the intention is to eradicate corruption?

Gandhian way or the democratic way or the violent way? Ethical and unethical? What does it matter?

I think many people on this board itself do not know what they want. One minute they are crying about corruption and the next minute they are finding faults in a man who is fighting corruption. To top it off, they want to share this mentality(cognitive dissonance) on an open forum.

People, what do you want?

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Anna Hazare - The Real Gandhian in him - YouTube

and also this Exit from Eden an article from 2003 gives some insight into the man.

In any case Anna Hazare or the drama of all that is happening today is not the main issue for me, it is the authority to be set up that is bad in any form. Corruption occurs because there is more of Government in our lives, because of the arbitrariness of decision making. Because a license has to be obtained you pay bribes so that you get an advantage, and of course it is the final consumer who pays for the corruption in one way or the other. If there is no license to be obtained, there will be no bribes. The most transparent and free societies are the least corrupt. We cannot solve this issue by adding more layers to the Government, if anything it will make the situation worse. Kindly go through the following link which explains this very well:

The Acorn » FAQ: Why Anna Hazare is wrong and Lok Pal a bad idea

Of course status quo is not the answer. We need more economic reforms, police reforms, judicial reforms, electoral reforms to build a fairer and freer society than we already are.

Also, lets understand Anna Hazare is just the mask, the Pied Piper leading the masses, but does he himself realize where he is taking them? Do we really know where we are being lead to? Please read more about the background of the real force behind them, the Bhushans, and their writings on this matter. Their main objective for this bill is not to erase corruption, that is just the lilting tune for the masses, they really want to control the Government's decision making abilities with this body and roll back the reforms started since the early 90s. Do we really want to go back to those days? Think and then support.

In short I don't support either the JanLokpal or any Lokpal for that matter, I want more transparency and less of Government in my life!

Actually current scope of bill proposed by both parties does not have any interference in the governance of the Government or any influence of Lokayukta into the decision making of the government. The scope of bill is strictly restricted to the corruption. The Lokayukta will only be able to prosecute and punish those involved in corruption. He will have no say in the policies of the government.

its similar to the election commission of India, they do not decide who can run for the election or what they do after election. Their job is to ensure free and fair elections and act as regulatory body to conduct elections. Their scope is limited to conduction of election.

Same way, Lokpal bill is to ensure there is a way to get to the bottom of charges of corruption against a elected person as well as other government officials and also to give a platform for common people, elites, social foundations and basically everyone to put forward their grievances in front of someone regarding corruption by government officials.

And the reason Lokpal bill keeps coming forward is due to the fact that this is suppose to be a body Independent of government interference. CBI, CAG CVC are under direct control of government. CVC was suppose to be what Lokpal is trying to be, but in the hand of dummy leader (President of India who himself is more or less at a mercy of ruling party ), meant it never really achieved the kind of autonomy it should have had.

If a strong Lokpal bill is passed, the Government can dismantle CVC. CAG is just an audit authority with no real power.

 

[broadway]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

The purpose of Lokpal bill is to give ultimate power to a third party which is neither the incumbent government nor the opposition.

Induction of lokpal does not automatically clean up things. It's just a step towards change. One step at a time. Those who criticize that this isn't going to change anything and that this is all one big drama have never had interest in administration or politics. In that regard, do you pick up a rifle and escape into the jungle to take up the maoist cause.

 

[Punker]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Anna Hazare and rest sent to Tihar Jail for 7 days