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Oracle
Delhi gang-rapists sentenced to death
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i think he was indicating towards the prez's parent-party gaining brownie-points (earlier prez invited scorn for her benevolence; people pointed/speculated to/at this being done either on 'madamji's orders, or to please her. this time, since the prez is quickly dispatching convicts off to the gallows, its again being thought that congress somehow hopes to gain benefit from this, as the prez belongs/belonged to that party. something like that. the way some congress ministers openly attribute their 'success' to bootlickery and express their apparent eagerness to do household-chores for their master{s} in the party, that enforces this suspicion in the public).
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blr_p
Oracle
The problem with the previous president was she did not really cause any waves unlike Kalam, the Pratibha from what i could tell was a rubber stamp president. Pranab is different, chief trouble shooter and very experienced.
This case is a judiciary decision, the judiciary is known to be fairly independent in India. The executive did not interfere in the process. In fact some would say the judiciary of late overreaches itself into the executive at times.
Judiciary is pro-people. I've yet to read the judgements and better understand them. guilty verdict is a 237 pg document, death sentence is just 20 pages. What reason is there for the president to dither on giving his assent.
So i don't see how this case benefits any party. If anything we are the beneficiaries.
This case is a judiciary decision, the judiciary is known to be fairly independent in India. The executive did not interfere in the process. In fact some would say the judiciary of late overreaches itself into the executive at times.
Judiciary is pro-people. I've yet to read the judgements and better understand them. guilty verdict is a 237 pg document, death sentence is just 20 pages. What reason is there for the president to dither on giving his assent.
So i don't see how this case benefits any party. If anything we are the beneficiaries.
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avi
Keymaster
aka Phir Bhi Dil Hai Hindustani movie
Would they make them wear any adverts on the jail clothes
I feel that death would be too kind to them. Putting them with in a cage a hungry man eating animal OR castration, etc - we have wonderful choices. And add to that the lawyer who questioned about the character of the victim - what kind of retard do we have here?
muzux2
Forerunner
ithehappy
Galvanizer
A very renowned advocate located here in Kolkata, Mr. Gita Nath Ganguly already said that.
Switch
Herald
What nobody noticed here is that that one of the four who will be hanged is 19 and one who was the most brutal will be eventually free cause he is 18. Lets say the age difference between them is less then six months how can our courts justify this decision. Rubbish system is what we have. Good that they are given top punishment but the law should have been the same for the two.
Also @as-a-ram would be shitting in his pants right now
Also @as-a-ram would be shitting in his pants right now
Hanging is still far away.High court > Supreme court > President. Atleast 3-4 years.
Most probably and at that time, the public will forget about this case and more gruesome news will surface.
http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/erratica/entry/justice-vs-bloodlust
I don't understand why people like these talk so stupidly. Granted that some of the points she mentioned are very accurate and there a lot of people are acting on blood lust and as she called vengeance, but the fact remains that justice by definition has always been about avenging injustice in a fair manner on equal terms. So why crib about it. I also agree that death sentence is a quick and easy punishment for such criminals, but it is still a good option in the absence of any other decent punishment in the country. They are a sorry excuse of an existence and a waste of precious resources and don't need to exist anymore, so why waste tax payers money to keep them alive and sustain them for life or even worse let them go after some time so they can repeat their actions again. There wouldn't be any worse insult to the very few tax payers in the country that their hard earned money is being used to keep such criminals alive.
There are crimes where regret and redemption are possible and it may even make sense that the such people be given another chance . But this is not one of them. There is no describing the brutal torture that they inflicted on the poor girl and by all means they deserve a similar treatment not just for justice sake, but to set an example to others, and if our law cannot inflict such physical and mental pain on them, the least they can do is to put an end to them quickly.
I don't understand why people like these talk so stupidly. Granted that some of the points she mentioned are very accurate and there a lot of people are acting on blood lust and as she called vengeance, but the fact remains that justice by definition has always been about avenging injustice in a fair manner on equal terms. So why crib about it. I also agree that death sentence is a quick and easy punishment for such criminals, but it is still a good option in the absence of any other decent punishment in the country. They are a sorry excuse of an existence and a waste of precious resources and don't need to exist anymore, so why waste tax payers money to keep them alive and sustain them for life or even worse let them go after some time so they can repeat their actions again. There wouldn't be any worse insult to the very few tax payers in the country that their hard earned money is being used to keep such criminals alive.
There are crimes where regret and redemption are possible and it may even make sense that the such people be given another chance . But this is not one of them. There is no describing the brutal torture that they inflicted on the poor girl and by all means they deserve a similar treatment not just for justice sake, but to set an example to others, and if our law cannot inflict such physical and mental pain on them, the least they can do is to put an end to them quickly.
sharktale1212
Herald
This ^ I remember in the 90s there was the Naina Sahni's case, also called Tandoor Murder case. The guy was arrested in 95. Was sentenced to death. In 2003, even the High court upheld the punishment. That punishment is yet to be carried out -- the appeal is pending in supreme court. The amazing thing was it took 4 yrs for supreme court just to admit the appeal. By the time, things come around he would have died of natrual causes.Hanging is still far away.High court > Supreme court > President. Atleast 3-4 years.
sid_donnydarko
Contributor
In a civilized society supported by a strict system/infrastructure, the government and its people mutually respect each other. A well-oiled system is there to remind both citizens and government officials alike that when the country is threatened by either internal factors such as social/economical/political breakdowns or externally such as an invasion, the system is capable of tackling such threats to protect all the citizens of the country. Do not confuse a country's infrastructure/system with the government. The system is like an invisible, inhuman and independent body/well-oiled machine yet possesses the ability to influence a nation either socially/politically/economically and counter any threat that can compromise a nation's security either internally or externally. Government officials cannot and must not be able to "negatively influence" the system but only enforce/re-enforce the rules that make up the system. They like us citizens are all cogs in the machine.
In a country like India that lacks infrastructure to support its current population and more importantly in context to my 1st paragraph lacks understanding of the necessity for an independent system beyond the reach of corrupt government officials, all decisions undertaken by the government will always lack credibility even if it is glaringly obvious that it is in the best interest of the citizens.
Why?
It is human nature to err.
It is human nature to be subjective.
It is human nature to emotionally compromise our decisions/views.
It is human nature to mistrust each other.
Given our governments track record, Indian citizens will always mistrust and undermine their initiatives even if it is for our betterment and no one can blame us for doing so. With the governments latest decision in the Delhi-Gang rape case, there has been an enormous amount of inconclusive and destructive reaction from us. Does anyone realize how much scarier it would be if the media one-day reports that the governments decision was heavily influenced by public outcry, indirectly humiliating our already inept-government even further? When will the day come when we start to trust the decisions the current government makes? Where do we draw the line and start believing that we are a civilized society? This will happen only if we build an infrastructure and submit to the fact that we(includes government officials) are but tiny cogs in one big machine.
Do you realize that the underlined lines reveals an emotionally compromised mindset? You cannot see the picture in its entirelty. You fail to understand that you are but a small part of a much larger picture and hence the underlined lines. The article you've quoted reveals how disgustingly hypocritical, ignorant and emotionally vulnerable Indian society is as a whole. Can you only emotionally connect with a Nirbhaya and not with Keenan or Reuben? Or do you need the media's help to do so? Don't you realize how Lawyers professionally undermine themselves when they scream "maaut ki saaza"? All throughout the Delhi-Gang rape case, from the day it was first reported till recently when the death penalty was awarded, rapes still continued in undiminishing numbers.
In a country like India that lacks infrastructure to support its current population and more importantly in context to my 1st paragraph lacks understanding of the necessity for an independent system beyond the reach of corrupt government officials, all decisions undertaken by the government will always lack credibility even if it is glaringly obvious that it is in the best interest of the citizens.
Why?
It is human nature to err.
It is human nature to be subjective.
It is human nature to emotionally compromise our decisions/views.
It is human nature to mistrust each other.
Given our governments track record, Indian citizens will always mistrust and undermine their initiatives even if it is for our betterment and no one can blame us for doing so. With the governments latest decision in the Delhi-Gang rape case, there has been an enormous amount of inconclusive and destructive reaction from us. Does anyone realize how much scarier it would be if the media one-day reports that the governments decision was heavily influenced by public outcry, indirectly humiliating our already inept-government even further? When will the day come when we start to trust the decisions the current government makes? Where do we draw the line and start believing that we are a civilized society? This will happen only if we build an infrastructure and submit to the fact that we(includes government officials) are but tiny cogs in one big machine.
Do you realize that the underlined lines reveals an emotionally compromised mindset? You cannot see the picture in its entirelty. You fail to understand that you are but a small part of a much larger picture and hence the underlined lines. The article you've quoted reveals how disgustingly hypocritical, ignorant and emotionally vulnerable Indian society is as a whole. Can you only emotionally connect with a Nirbhaya and not with Keenan or Reuben? Or do you need the media's help to do so? Don't you realize how Lawyers professionally undermine themselves when they scream "maaut ki saaza"? All throughout the Delhi-Gang rape case, from the day it was first reported till recently when the death penalty was awarded, rapes still continued in undiminishing numbers.
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sid_donnydarko
Contributor
What nobody noticed here is that that one of the four who will be hanged is 19 and one who was the most brutal will be eventually free cause he is 18. Lets say the age difference between them is less then six months how can our courts justify this decision. Rubbish system is what we have. Good that they are given top punishment but the law should have been the same for the two.
Also @as-a-ram would be shitting in his pants right now
The law is the law. But wait, how could you possibly understand when you don't fear the law? How could you when you spend a lifetime bending and breaking most rules as when you please?
I sincerely sympathize with the victims family. I really do. But I would definitely help them understand the fact that a 19 yr old will be put to death and a juvenile, junior to the former by less than a year, won't because its an isolated incident and the chances that the same kind of perpetrators committing a similar heinous act in the future are very very small. Though I wouldn't go as far telling them to write it off as a mere technicality with the law.
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Oh please, I can clearly see it for what it is and I don't agree with the author on some points while I agree to some. At the end of the day, after all that introspection on how people behave, all she is trying to say is that this death sentence is not a solution to the problem at hand and the people demanding for it and celebrating it is just a knee jerk reaction. I have no problem at all agreeing about that part and I do think that such mass mentality is stupid and hypocrisy at its best.
I know very well that rapes (and other crimes) still continue every day and I am fully aware that Nirbhaya's case is just the tip of the ice berg and known to people only because of the media publicity and there are even more brutal incidents happening in the country every day every hour. Even the people who know about Nibhaya's case through media publicity don't have a clue about the extent of brutality inflicted on her which is equivalent to the torture chambers of yester years and the worst thing is that there are many other such cases as well.
The irony is that the very people who were holding banners and placard's condemning the incident in general causing a ruckus and nuisance were happily harassing girls from the next day onwards. That is how hypocritical our country is.
But the question is whether any of this analysis and with her general agreements/disagreements with the punishment given and comparison with other crimes , does she or for that matter you yourself have a better solution to stop this menace? Do you think that people who barely have any respect for the law or would reform or does she at least have a better way of punishing them or some plan on how to bring about parental accountability as she pointed out? Do you have any idea how many repeat offenders are there when it comes to rapes? She talks about a lot of things which do need some careful thinking and Its all fine and dandy to be philosophical about the real solution, but at the end of the day, what is is the immediate remedy for these menaces? I don't see any. That's why I called articles like these stupid considering that at the end, all that such articles suggest is that this death sentence is somehow wrong or suggest/imply that there must be a better solution without giving any.
Punishment given as part of upholding justice has always been about avenging (and I would bring your attention to the fact that avenge is not the same thing as revenge) the wrong doing. Before the British, our laws in yester years were always about "eye for an eye" kind and it apparently worked well. But now, as far as avenging goes, I am pretty sure that this poor girl and so many other victims can never get justice in our country and I am not sure whether we would ever get to a stage where potential criminals are discouraged from doing crimes because of our legal system. But the least that our legal system can make sure is that such criminals don't get a chance to repeat such grievous crimes. Either lock them up for life or end their life altogether and I would choose the latter if for nothing else, but simply for the practical reason that if such people are locked up, it means that the tax payer is also getting penalized in a sense. I would rather that such menaces be put down with haste.
I am I happy about the death sentence?, yes I am happy, but I am not stupid enough to go celebrate it like the stupid people in our country that are doing it. I am not going to wave a flag "India wins" and feel great about it. If anything, I am ashamed that this is what our country is like.
We don't have provisions in our laws to punish these criminals on equal terms as they deserve, but at the very least, I believe that the punishment is correct from a practical point of view at least. My only gripe is that this case took 9 long months in a fast track court and God (if such a being exists) only knows how many more years in subsequent appeals.
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sato1986
Herald
Well said Nemesis.
Instead of Life-imprisonment or instant death, it would have been great if our legal system had a third option:
Punish the accused with near-equal amount of mental and physical torture as inflicted by them upon the victim. Make a video of the torture, and post on sites where leaked Mms/rape-videos are posted. After they rot in shame for 7 days, free their soul by a death penalty.
Instead of Life-imprisonment or instant death, it would have been great if our legal system had a third option:
Punish the accused with near-equal amount of mental and physical torture as inflicted by them upon the victim. Make a video of the torture, and post on sites where leaked Mms/rape-videos are posted. After they rot in shame for 7 days, free their soul by a death penalty.
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sid_donnydarko
Contributor
The author isn't simply trying to be philosophical. Did you notice how she pulled up instances from the past? The author's intention is to be introspective and that is the first step towards finding a solution. It might not be a solution like you expect. But considering she's done what most others haven't, face the harsh truth about our society, i'd say that's commendable. On the other hand you're more bothered about your money, less than a rupee maybe, being wasted on keeping the guilty alive. Look at the bigger picture. I'm pretty sure the author is a tax payer too but i don't see her whining about her money getting wasted. Even i don't have a solution, but following introspection the next step would be towards building a robust infrastructure and then submitting to the system as a cog that does its part. Emotional outbursts only serve to create havoc within society.
There are two ways to look at this:
a) You can either sentence the guilty to death thereby preventing further crimes.
(or)
b) You condemn them to life imprisonment without parole thereby preventing further crimes.
Why is it that option (b) is so hard for you to accept? Is it about the tax-payers money?
Thank you so much for your post. And to think my third option would've made a difference - life imprisonment with rehabilitation
Why is it that most feel the urge to stoop down to the level of a criminal to dispense justice? Its barbaric and promotes violence. Even if we aren't a violent people by nature, judging by the majority of the responses in this thread we sure are headed that way.
Personally, the only time i would ever resort to violence is in self-defence. And even then i'd wish there was a non-violent way.
We don't have provisions in our laws to punish criminals on equal terms as they deserve because we are not barbarians.
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Seems people vying for barbaric punishments needs to introspect themselves. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Rather, let humanity do better acts that nurture humanity and humility.
As of those who are hell bend on killing the junior (ok, we all know he got of lightly, should have punished at least for 7 years) should know that his mind developed from young age with what society taught /shown him. Society cannot escape from the collective responsibility of this crime.
As of those who are hell bend on killing the junior (ok, we all know he got of lightly, should have punished at least for 7 years) should know that his mind developed from young age with what society taught /shown him. Society cannot escape from the collective responsibility of this crime.
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