Hazare's fast and its Impact

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madnav said:
@nehal,

at any point, did Hazare make any of those demands own his own? Or were it just crazy supporters who kept pushing?
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Why would Hazare do it personally? He had his bunch of supporters to put forth his demands. He sent these supporters 2 days in advance to check out the hotel to see if it was fit for accommodating his highness, and all his demands were communicated to us through his supporters.

He didn't even talk to us properly despite us being the hosts for the function.

Do you think that his crazy supporters would push for demands on their own will?? I certainly don't think so.

And even assuming that the crazy supporters did this on their own will, Hazare could have refused the luxuries if he was so down to earth, isn't it??
pauldmps said:
Any specific proof to justify your stance ?
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If you don't believe me, don't believe. I have not asked anyone to believe me. I learned after taking a fall, you either take my word and learn or take a fall and learn. ;)
 
Bill will go back to Parliament, cynics will go back to IPL, youth will go back to Roadies, civil society will go back to Maoists.
 
On a lighter note, I found this:

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nehaladsul said:
If you don't believe me, don't believe. I have not asked anyone to believe me. I learned after taking a fall, you either take my word and learn or take a fall and learn. ;)
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You are misunderstanding me. I really want to know your views about him & why you are showing such hatred against him. From whatever I have read about him (Wikipedia, BBC Profile, etc.), everything is written good about him.

Do you know him personally or what ?
 
^Read neha's earlier posts. He knows him personally and according to him Hazare is a two face like other politicians.
 
^^ yeah, it brings up many good points regarding the bill. The selection comittee bit especially smacks of elitism as does the suo moto bit.
 
^I read it. Just another activist blogger. He uses too many adjectives to make a case against the jan lokpal bill.

The common recurring theme doing the round against the bill is the "undoing" of "democracy". Karan thapar practically made an entire show on that theme in defence of democracy. How can these people who aren't "democratically elected" force the govt to introduce a bill through "blackmailing" tactics?

So now, the problem isn't about "corruption" any more. It is about the "method". A "method" which goes against the fundamentals of democracy.

Hence its okay if CBI's, DRI's etc are appointed to investigate corruption matters because they are "govt appointed"; so technically, "democratically appointed". Its okay if these "independent" agencies come out with a report which are convenient to the ruling govt. No problem. Keep playing the game. As long as we play as per the rules of democracy, its okay. Everything else is a violation of democracy and hence, a "blackmail".

I think people are just confused. They've been ingrained with a notion that identifies the "democratic" form of govt as some sort of gospel truth. According to them, if "fighting corruption" means "undermining democracy" then it is not acceptable.

So, they make an argument for the cause and another one against it and take pride in the neutrality of their stand. Disoriented fools.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

By the way,
1) The bill is yet to be introduced in the parliament (during monsoon)
2) The bill needs a majority to be passed successfully

So the govt has a good month or two to argue against the bill. Which means, we are going to read and hear about its demerits a lot in the print and visual media for next coming months.

My argument will stay the same till the day comes: Why will the govt shoot its own foot?
 
IMHO, impetus should be on the cause & not on individuals. Personal equations should be kept at a side when the matter is greater National interest.

The Cause Anna has been championing is GREAT. We need to get CORRUPTION out of this Country, very difficult Yes but there had to be a start. He's started a good movement, in favor of Millions of people. Corruption is the biggest rot & this is the biggest cause.

The way he adopted is great too, not traffic jams, no stone pelting, no trains stopping, etc. What else do we need!

If someone stands up for a good cause, support is all he should get. Criticism looks like guarding the interests of Ultra-Corrupt Politicos & Babus.

Why should a Politico or a Babu be immune? Why should a Public servant be a King? Why should the common man suffer?

Why should a Politico not be called back?

Its a great movement & the young India should do more than just question the credentials.

P.S: All the talk of Democrasy is pure crap, what have the Democratically elected Govts delivered so far? Only sold out the Country!' People are dying of hunger, population explotion is eating into resourses, there is no law & order, Citizens rights are not respected, PAY MONEY/BRIBE & get anything done, etc, there's no end to it.

So a democratically elected Govt needs to be accountable & each & every Politico, Govt official should be help responsible for the misdeeds they commit.
 
Oh wow. So corruption ends in the country. Tomorrow onwards I do not need to bribe the traffic police, or the chap at the Passport office, or at the ration department, electricity board, municipality and other government offices. No one will ask for a bribe because they would all be scared. India will host the Olympics with half the expenditure incurred during the CWG. Roads will never break, bridges will never collapse, buildings will not have a crack.

A new India. A nation full of optimists, a land of opportunities, and free access to Facebook to everybody to support a cause. Candles would be made available for sale at the India Gate, since candles have brought about more changes to this country than anything ever has.
 
agantuk said:
Oh wow. So corruption ends in the country. Tomorrow onwards I do not need to bribe the traffic police, or the chap at the Passport office, or at the ration department, electricity board, municipality and other government offices. No one will ask for a bribe because they would all be scared. India will host the Olympics with half the expenditure incurred during the CWG. Roads will never break, bridges will never collapse, buildings will not have a crack.

A new India. A nation full of optimists, a land of opportunities, and free access to Facebook to everybody to support a cause. Candles would be made available for sale at the India Gate, since candles have brought about more changes to this country than anything ever has.
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Sounds poetic man :bleh:
 
agantuk said:
Oh wow. So corruption ends in the country. Tomorrow onwards I do not need to bribe the traffic police, or the chap at the Passport office, or at the ration department, electricity board, municipality and other government offices. No one will ask for a bribe because they would all be scared. India will host the Olympics with half the expenditure incurred during the CWG. Roads will never break, bridges will never collapse, buildings will not have a crack.

A new India. A nation full of optimists, a land of opportunities, and free access to Facebook to everybody to support a cause. Candles would be made available for sale at the India Gate, since candles have brought about more changes to this country than anything ever has.
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That would be a dream-come-true, but for now, its still a dream.
 
agantuk said:
Oh wow. So corruption ends in the country. Tomorrow onwards I do not need to bribe the traffic police, or the chap at the Passport office, or at the ration department, electricity board, municipality and other government offices. No one will ask for a bribe because they would all be scared. India will host the Olympics with half the expenditure incurred during the CWG. Roads will never break, bridges will never collapse, buildings will not have a crack.

A new India. A nation full of optimists, a land of opportunities, and free access to Facebook to everybody to support a cause. Candles would be made available for sale at the India Gate, since candles have brought about more changes to this country than anything ever has.
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i think he meant it sarcastically.
 
nehaladsul said:
This Man was the Chief Guest for the Inauguration of my Uncle's Multi Speciality Hospital at Dhule District a few years back.

He made us book a 3 star Hotel (Ganpati Palace), send 3 air conditioned vehicles (Mahindra Scorpios) to collect him and his bunch of followers, and we even had to present this man with a silk dhoti worth ~ 5k that was chosen by one of his followers.
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Assuming what you are saying is true, I dont see anything wrong in it. Your uncle's hospital is a for profit business, he might be giving treatment to the poor for free but still its a profitable business. The reason your uncle called Hazare was for publicity. Why should Hazare come to your uncle's hospital and not demand all these things.

What were you expecting, that Hazare will come alone and sleep on the hospital floor??
After reading Neha's post my respect for Hazare has actually increased. He is a smart man and knows how to differentiate between people who want to use him for publicity.
 
agantuk said:
Oh wow. So corruption ends in the country. Tomorrow onwards I do not need to bribe the traffic police, or the chap at the Passport office, or at the ration department, electricity board, municipality and other government offices. No one will ask for a bribe because they would all be scared. India will host the Olympics with half the expenditure incurred during the CWG. Roads will never break, bridges will never collapse, buildings will not have a crack.

A new India. A nation full of optimists, a land of opportunities, and free access to Facebook to everybody to support a cause. Candles would be made available for sale at the India Gate, since candles have brought about more changes to this country than anything ever has.
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@ agantuk, i'll repeat again, 10 years back when i went for my passport, even though all my papers were proper i had to pay Rs.3000/- & Rs.1000/- for police verification, i had to go abroad for work hence the company requested a police clearance certificate, i paid another Rs.2000/- for this.

just last month i got my passport renewed since it was expired, i only had to pay the required Rs.1000/- & got a receipt for it. i didn't have to pay anyone anything & no one demanded nothing. went by the book, filled the form online, took the print, attached related papers required.

in another incident, since i stay in thane since birth, there were a lot of development changes since then, new roads were built etc, my address on the ration card was old, since we had a new road instead of an old road, i had to include that in my ration card & a landmark, i went to the rationing office, took a form which was costing Rs.2/- only, filled it & gave the required papers, after 2 days the rationing inspector came to my house for verification, fortunately he came early & i was available, i showed him all the papers he demanded & since he was also aware about the changes happened in my area, he verified it & i got my rationing card within 7 days & when he came to my house i asked him if he wanted some chai paani, he refused & said i do not want anything.

and why do you want to bribe the traffic police, like we say in hindi, KAYDE MEIN RAHOGE TO FAYDE MEIN RAHOGE ofcourse if you break the law you have to pay the fine, else he is not going to stop you & demand for money right away. i was caught without helmet, i refused to pay him bribe, i told him to make chalan & i paid Rs.100/- & promised myself not to break the law again.

i may not be Mr. Right, but the system will be the way i want it to be, because the system is right & we have to make it run.
 
Hacker said:
After reading Neha's post my respect for Hazare has actually increased. He is a smart man and knows how to differentiate between people who want to use him for publicity.
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I didn't expect him to come and sleep on the hospital floors.

But I didn't expect him to go up on stage and claim that he is a really simple person who needs only a rug and a water vessel for his living....

Neway, To each his own... I am done with this thread... :bleh:
 
nehaladsul said:
I didn't expect him to come and sleep on the hospital floors.

But I didn't expect him to go up on stage and claim that he is a really simple person who needs only a rug and a water vessel for his living....

Neway, To each his own... I am done with this thread... :bleh:
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@ neha, i am so sorry to see that you tried your life's best to make Anna the badest person because of the experience you had, lets say you are right, then time will tell.

we are Indians, we take no time to make anyone a HERO, one slight mistake & we equally take the same time to make him/her BAD.

ALL IN TIME MY FRIEND, ALL IN TIME.
 
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