Police clamp down on anti-israel protests

[ikkhan]

Over at Sydney University, a visibly Israeli supporter asks protesters for solutions

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795436912892924086

Gag order in effect. Same MO at these protests no matter the country.

Nobody dares to condemn Hamas? What are they afraid of

30,000 people killed and if the your concern still is,why didn't u condemn hummus, why would even anyone answer your question?

Will israels mass murder stop if they condemn hummus? What will it achieve? Why should they condemn hummus when they are protesting against israels treatment of palestinian?

Want to ask the charred children killed a day ago if they condemn hummus?

 

[blr_p]

Will israels mass murder stop if they condemn hummus? What will it achieve? Why should they condemn hummus when they are protesting against israels treatment of palestinian?

Call for Hamas to surrender, lay down arms and return the hostages. If Hamas actually did that the war stops tomorrow.

That is the point of these protests isn't it. Stop the war.

Every death whether Israeli or Arab is on Hamas.

 

[Neotheone]

Every death whether Israeli or Arab is on Hamas.

Dear member, I still think you are well meaning, but your black and white statements seem to be ignoring all nuance. I generally understand why Israel needs to be aggressive when faced with aggression, as they are surrounded by hostile and often uncivilized neighbors. That does not however make your blanket statements reasonable. You seem to have no ability to see that Israel could have responded proportionately and minimized civilian casualties. They also had the options like covert Mossad strikes on Hamas leadership.

That said, it seems that you need to reflect until you can start valuing loss of human lives (independent of nationality) at least at some scale. If not 100, then 10000 deaths. Maybe 100000 but have some threshold of human deaths that makes you see it as unjust. Otherwise, you seem almost as unreasonable as the extreme left-wing liberals, who end up supporting Hamas during protests.

 

[dpandey]

Call for Hamas to surrender

This will only create a temporary pause.

Why blame Hamas? They are just a tool in the regional theopolitics. If it wasn't Hamas, it will be another group with another name.

Jews have been dealt a tough hand. You have to read the ancient middle eastern books to understand how much the rest of them hate this tiny group of people.

Jews will survive. They survived the Europeans who blamed them for 'killing their god' and tried to wipe them off the earth. They will survive this crisis too. Thankfully they are doing what needs to be done and not taking war advice from their enemies.

 

[blr_p]

This will only create a temporary pause.

Think wider. If Hamas wins, which means they survive. It will mean anyone can attack Israel and the 'world' will shield them.

Similar attacks can be made from Judea & Samaria. From Hezbollah. By militias from Syria/Iraq and finally Iran. Hezbollah is already shelling from the north. Iran made a display recently.

That is five fronts to deal with in perpetuity. Does anyone think this is acceptable?

Why blame Hamas? They are just a tool in the regional theopolitics. If it wasn't Hamas, it will be another group.

So we should excuse them? I don't get your point. Hamas is an Iranian proxy. Once they are dealt with Israel will move on to the remainder

They have shown the world how to attack Israel. The deterrence Israel thought it had is non existent. So it's a question of regaining that deterrence.

Jews have been dealt a tough hand. You have to read the ancient middle eastern books to understand how much the rest of them hate this tiny group of people.

What's driving these protests is the belief that Israel's end is near.

Think back to 9/11. After which you saw an added confidence among jihadis worldwide. Same will happen again if Israel surrenders. We will all face the same brunt again.

 

[dpandey]

If Hamas wins,

There are more options than just 'hamas surrender' and hamas win'.

So we should excuse them? I don't get your point.

They have shown the world how to attack Israel. The deterrence Israel thought it had is non existent. So it's a question of regaining that deterrence.

The enemy is not hamas. Hamas is just a fake made up group like Palestine.

Find out who is funding hamas and subdue them. Even if hamas is wiped out, another group with another name will be created to do exactly what hamas is doing.

Did the west punjab (aka pakistan) army's surrender in 1971 stop them from creating trouble for us.

 

[blr_p]

There are more options than ust 'hamas surrender' and hamas win'.

Such as?

Find out who is funding hamas and subdue them.

Hah I wish. That is a job for the Iranian public to do.

Even if hamas is wiped out, another group with another name will be created to do exactly what hamas is doing.

They will need to develop an army and governing power. That will take many years.

The lesson we have learnt is states can be deterred but not groups like these. So the Israelis will be less trusting than before. That is fine. The objective is we never see an Oct 7 again.

Enough aid, has been spent on Gaza that per capita exceeds the Marshall plan. See what they did with that aid.

 

[dpandey]

Such as?

How about 'Hamas defeat' for a start?

 

[blr_p]

How about 'Hamas defeat' for a start?

We are in agreement

 

[TEUser2K1]

Apparently, the next day after this speech, Frankfurt banned protests:

 

[superczar]

I don’t understand this debate at all.

While there are a lot of nuances involved, there are two statements which are unequivocally true and unambiguous.

- Hamas‘s attack on Israel was wrong and deplorable - period
- Israel’s counter-attack , that is supposedly on Hamas but is harming the general populace of Gaza way more is wrong and deplorable

I don’t think anyone would dispute the first statement.
For some reason, a lot of people in India seem to think otherwise about the second.

We have a fairly close parallel within India - At the peak of the Khalistan movement, the attacks committed by the involved organizations were even more acute/ severe (Recall the bombing of Kanishka/ assassination of the then PM)
Thankfully there was no officially state sponsored counter attack on the broader Punjabi population
And no one with any iota of sensibility would justify the unofficial sanctioned attacks on Sikhs as acceptable / collateral damage

yet somehow the “accidental” killing of over 30K regular folks in Gaza is absolutely fine with many
And if that weren’t enough, anyone who feels or states otherwise is gaslighted!

 

[blr_p]

What will the consequences of this unrest be? It starts with identifying the culprits and going after them

1) Couple of congressional probes in process

https://freebeacon.com/campus/congress-launches-probe-into-groups-funding-pro-hamas-unrest-on-campus/

Congress on Tuesday initiated a wide-ranging probe into 20 nonprofit groups bankrolling and supporting anti-Israel protests on college campuses across the nation and are petitioning federal authorities to turn over internal documents that could tie them to money laundering and terrorism financing,

The investigation, Comer and Foxx write, "relates both to malign influence on college campuses and to the national security implications of such influence on faculty and student organizations."

Access to the Treasury Department's Suspicious Activity Reports will enable federal investigators to ferret out financial information about those "connected to the organizations propping up these illegal encampments on university campuses,"

In other words increased monitoring of funding for the various entities involved.

House Republican Probes State Department Communication With ‘Radical Pro-Hamas Groups’

A House Republican asked the State Department on Wednesday to turn over "all records and correspondence it has had with radical pro-Hamas groups linked to the funding of the anti-Semitic protests that have exploded across college campuses in recent months," the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

freebeacon.com

With the campus protest movement drawing national attention, many Republicans in Congress are seeking to identify how these funding channels function and whether the Biden administration has been coordinating with any of these groups behind the scenes.

Very interesting. I've long believed these protests went to the extent they did because there was a nod from the top.

In an election year, you don't want to upset would be voters especially young that would typically vote Democrat. Well, if this turns out to be the case there will be charges brought by the opposition party.


2) A number of universities have been grilled about antisemitism on their campuses by Congress already.

Northwestern university's turn to get grilled by Congress.

I like how the congressman has a big cheque behind him showing just how much this university has received from Qatar since 2007 and then asks the college president how much they received from Qatar

The potential consequences here to look forward to are defunding of federal funding to those universities deemed as failing to address antisemitism. All universities whether private or not benefit from federal funding. Notice how quickly the state universities called in the cops

You might think this is nothing for private universities with endowments running into the tens of billions but realise that money is tied up in investments. Federal money helps with day to day cash flow and it will cause problems. Not something they would want to happen to them.

3) Finally, a good response by the governor of Florida regarding these protesters

Stand out line

In Florida, we don't let the inmates run the asylum

Great, Why's this not apply to the rest of the country?

 

[dpandey]

We have a fairly close parallel within India - At the peak of the Khalistan movement, the attacks committed by the ...

Not even remotely similar. Try your analysis with Indo-pak relations.

West asian conflict is an ancient one that finds mention in their scriptures (even those supposedly dictated by their god). Hatred of jews in that part of the world goes deeper than what the current popular media would like us to believe. This is not a real estate litigation. Something bigger is being played out.

Interestingly, most Arab nations (who are genetically related to the jews) have distanced themselves from this nonsense. The loudest noises are coming from fake-Arabs (non-Arabs who keep Arabic names and pretend to be Arabs). I get my daily laugh watching Pakis hyperventilate in front of TV cameras.

One Paki (I am sure he calls himself a syed ) even ordered the arrest of Netanyahu .

 

[blr_p]

- Hamas‘s attack on Israel was wrong and deplorable - period

How many protesters agree with you on that point? None!.. and I've tried to demonstrate this from numerous sources around the world. More would be good but I think we all get the point.

More importantly, polls show 70% of Gazans and closer to 80% in Judea & Samaria celebrate Oct 7 as a victory.

Follow up questions are
- Does Israel have a right to exist?
- Does Israel have a right to self defense?

All pertinent questions by the former UK home minister got zero responses. Instead we get some critique that these are not appropriate questions.

Such mental gymnastics to dodge the questions and some have been quite creative.

The answer to both those follow up questions is a resounding No by Palestinians.

The reason these protests happened is people cannot figure out who the bad guys were on Oct 7. Why?

yet somehow the “accidental” killing of over 30K regular folks in Gaza is absolutely fine with many
And if that weren’t enough, anyone who feels or states otherwise is gaslighted!

Why is over 30k a problem and not over 10k?

Why is 30k a problem and not 60k?

Do you see the problem. Some arbitrary number has been thrown in. A bogus humanitarian argument is being made that has no relevance as far as the rules of war are concerned. Which is the standard, world governments, particularly democracies are held to.

There is a further problem with this specious argument. How are democracies supposed to defend themselves in the future? Because the implication is only so much and no more.

It gives a pass to terrorists worldwide that they can attack with impunity because 'world opinion' will defend them. That after a conflict they will be left standing. Free to reconstitute and attack in the future whenever appropriate at a time and place of their choosing. This is a recipe for endless conflict because the perpetrators will never be completely defeated.

Why was there peace after WW2? Because Germany & Japan were totally defeated. Nobody stepped in just as the allies and Russians were closing in on Berlin and said stop. Too many have died. The consensus was to finish the job.

Then again after the collapse of the soviet union. We entered an era of global peace and unprecedented prosperity not known in the past.

When Israel says they are fighting for the rest of civilisation, they are right. Any negative precedents set here affect future conflicts. Who's to say all will abide. Why does Hamas not get asked the hard questions?

But the immediate result is Israel's surrender to a war they didn't even start. Hamas win. THIS is what your post boils down to. So which argument is an attempt at gaslighting here ? This 30k figure you throw about

For Israel every civilian death is a tragedy. For Hamas it's a strategy.

 

[ikkhan]

Not even remotely similar. Try your analysis with Indo-pak relations.

West asian conflict is an ancient one that finds mention in their scriptures (even those supposedly dictated by their god). Hatred of jews in that part of the world goes deeper than what the current popular media would like us to believe. This is not a real estate litigation. Something bigger is being played out.

Interestingly, most Arab nations (who are genetically related to the jews) have distanced themselves from this nonsense. The loudest noises are coming from fake-Arabs (non-Arabs who keep Arabic names and pretend to be Arabs). I get my daily laugh watching Pakis hyperventilate in front of TV cameras.

One Paki (I am sure he calls himself a syed ) even ordered the arrest of Netanyahu .

Our boy here handing out arab certificates, fresh certificates straight from WhatsApp forward

I guess american college students are fake arabs,along with European who are fake arab,same with south africa even they are fake arabs damn everyone is fake arab except our boy here he is 100 percent authentic aryan dropped straight from Mr hitlers pocket ,

Can't understand people here who are obsessed over everything with failed state like pakistan,might even blame your ed on them
Regarding the names its more persian than arabic. Maybe read something other than WhatsApp forwards

 

[blr_p]

Did the west punjab (aka pakistan) army's surrender in 1971 stop them from creating trouble for us.

We did not pursue the total defeat of West Punjab?

Whether because it was not an objective or the world prevented us. That is why the defeat of 1971 did not stop them creating trouble for us.

That is India's lot

Does not apply to Israel. Also consider it took three attempts to wipe them off the map until the arabs gave up and concluded Israel was here to stay

Why Oct 7 is so dangerous is Hamas in one day showed Israel was weak. Something Arab armies have failed to demonstrate in the last 76 years.

To be inspire others to do similar and over time, slowly but surely wipe Israel off the map.

It's dangerous to appear weak in that region

 

[dpandey]

Something Arab armies have failed to demonstrate in the last 76 years.

Not quite. Israel looked far weaker on the 6th of Oct 1973, courtesy Arab armies.
Israel is not going to lose any land in this current conflict (might even end up gaining some).

 

[blr_p]

West asian conflict is an ancient one that finds mention in their scriptures (even those supposedly dictated by their god). Hatred of jews in that part of the world goes deeper than what the current popular media would like us to believe. This is not a real estate litigation. Something bigger is being played out.

Land that was under Islamic control cannot be allowed to pass into non Muslim hands and it is the duty of every Muslim to oppose it.

That is the religious basis. As the 30s & 40s wore on. Jews from all Arab countries that had been living there for centuries were all banished. They ended up as refugees in the mandate. Around 800k refugees from all over the region.

The mandate was divided under the British in the 30s according to Jordan 72% of the land. People ask for two state. Here it is.

But that was not enough. The arabs wanted it all.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@dpandey
> West asian conflict is an ancient one that finds mention in their scriptures (even those supposedly dictated by their god).

You are spot on about scriptures and tribal cultural inertia in that region.

Curse of Canaan. The curse was made by Noah, not by God.

> This is not a real estate litigation. Something bigger is being played out.

A new alternative interpretation of 4Q181, which is a Dead Sea scroll of Genesis, suggests that Canaan was cursed because he defied Noah's division of the land.

This conflict have tribal / ethnic feud like connotations, people outside that region have no proper connection to it. Was present aeons before the current dominant religion in that region was even created. Reason why it is ethnic / tribal conflict.

 

[blr_p]

Not quite. Israel looked far weaker on the 6th of Oct 1973, courtesy Arab armies.
Israel is not going to lose any land in this current conflict (might even end up gaining some).

True, at the outset but there came a point where they surrounded the Egyptian 3rd army and wanted to anhilate them. Kissinger objected. No total defeat of Egypt would be tolerated by the US.

Oct 7 is a psychological thing. Did anyone expect it. If anyone said beforehand it could happen would they be credible? No

Yet there was something called the Jericho document that was going around the IDF a year prior that detailed this exact scenario.

Once you know that then Oct 7 happening isn't a surprise. What is surprising is the complacency and outright refusal by mitary leadership to even consider such a scenario. Military intelligence and southern command. Asleep at the wheel. A serious breach of the social contract and confidence in the IDF whose job is to protect the people.

This has given rise to numerous conspiracy theories because nobody can belive the Israelis could get caught with their pants down. Literally. But occam's razor should be used here. Plain cockups can and do happen to the best of us.