Purchased an AMD 7950x3D from Amazon (Appario) for 65K. Got an unknown, decade old CPU with a Ryzen sticker on it. The package has t seal intact. Help
- Thread starter japjitsingh
- Start date
kalph09
Level F
Use it as a last resort. Am not sure what are the long-term implications from it.
In my case, they faked the delivery attempts for my S23. I collected screenshots of delivery attempts, recording with CC, etc before raising a dispute. However, the bank (AMEX) did not ask a single question or produce evidence, they straight up got the money back.
I saw your post on Reddit as well, I think. Did the twitter post help you get any traction? I understand unboxing videos are a necessity for everyone but what are the options in case it's not there for whatever reason? The CPU here is sealed and should that not be enough?
untoasted4553
Novice
I remember this happened to me 3 years back. I returned the package to amazon, with a 15 year old CPU in it.
I think these are well known scam sellers known by Amazon and they don't ask any questions about returning the items.
I think these are well known scam sellers known by Amazon and they don't ask any questions about returning the items.
japjitsingh
Novice
Last Update: 21/07/23
Amazon initiated a refund of Rs. 64,491, exactly what I paid. The refund will take 3-5 days to reflect on credit card. I did not have to return the product. The product still appears in my Order History as if it was delivered normally.
I have only received an automated email about the refund. No phone calls, no Customer Care messages. Email doesn't have a Refund Reference Number. I cannot say what particularly convinced them to actually initiate the refund. They did not reveal any investigation findings, if they conducted one. In the email there's only one line to explain the refund: "Reason for refund: Account adjustment"
I will not delve into all the things I did to have Amazon take the issue seriously. I did not do anything special or out of ordinary. You will find what to do in any post such as this one. All comments are helpful.
For anyone who comes across this post, please treat my refund as an exception rather than a rule. Hate to sound like a boomer, but be cautious with online shopping!
There are some lessons I learned that I want to share.
1. Try not to order high-value small-sized products online. Prefer official sellers. Want Apple watch? Prefer Apple.
2. Amazon is the really good, customer-friendly company until it's not. Be wary of preconceived notions and word of mouth.
3. When you post your issue on public forums, there are always going to be self-important naysayers accusing you of being guilty until proven. Almost all of them ask for an unboxing video. Don't entertain them, for them your post/video is just schadenfreude entertainment. Focus on the people who help.
4. Unboxing videos are a false panacea. Nobody cares about them as far as Amazon or Flipkart is concerned. Their usefulness is an old wives tale. Flipkart/Amazon packages do not come enveloped in a Lakshman Rekha. Anyone can proctor a fake unboxing video and these e-Retailers know it. They may be useful when the delivery is third party. Like for the case when buying from online computer shops such as PC Studio, Vedant Computers etc.
5. If you want an actually useful unboxing video that has some weight to it, get the delivery person to open the package on camera. Share the OTP after you're satisfied. Flipkart already does it these days: the delivery person opens the parcel in front of you and records it on his phone.
6. The first line of contact i.e. chat option or call me option on the app is useless. It's only for petty issues. The people on the line are scum. They're corporate trained sociopaths who will not help you, and often prematurely close the ticket to call it a day. Your issue never reaches the investigation team. Realize that they're just small-time call center employees with zero authority except to stomp on your complaint. Don't contact them more than once for the initial complaint.
7. Try to document your case in a Twitter thread. It's just easier to just paste a link to the thread wherever you need to explain your case. That way you can avoid inserting photos/videos/text posts which get messy quickly when you gotta complain multiple places and times.
8. When complaining, prefer to send emails over phone calls or the chat option. Nobody cares about recorded phone calls with the CC, or screenshots of chat. As I mentioned, the first line of contact with the CC has no weight.
9. Prefer to shop with a credit card or a card with a purchase protection plan so there is a possibility of filing a chargeback.
10. Getting online traction on your posts does nothing. Only focus your energy in taking concrete steps.
Thank you everyone for the support.
Amazon initiated a refund of Rs. 64,491, exactly what I paid. The refund will take 3-5 days to reflect on credit card. I did not have to return the product. The product still appears in my Order History as if it was delivered normally.
I have only received an automated email about the refund. No phone calls, no Customer Care messages. Email doesn't have a Refund Reference Number. I cannot say what particularly convinced them to actually initiate the refund. They did not reveal any investigation findings, if they conducted one. In the email there's only one line to explain the refund: "Reason for refund: Account adjustment"
I will not delve into all the things I did to have Amazon take the issue seriously. I did not do anything special or out of ordinary. You will find what to do in any post such as this one. All comments are helpful.
For anyone who comes across this post, please treat my refund as an exception rather than a rule. Hate to sound like a boomer, but be cautious with online shopping!
There are some lessons I learned that I want to share.
1. Try not to order high-value small-sized products online. Prefer official sellers. Want Apple watch? Prefer Apple.
2. Amazon is the really good, customer-friendly company until it's not. Be wary of preconceived notions and word of mouth.
3. When you post your issue on public forums, there are always going to be self-important naysayers accusing you of being guilty until proven. Almost all of them ask for an unboxing video. Don't entertain them, for them your post/video is just schadenfreude entertainment. Focus on the people who help.
4. Unboxing videos are a false panacea. Nobody cares about them as far as Amazon or Flipkart is concerned. Their usefulness is an old wives tale. Flipkart/Amazon packages do not come enveloped in a Lakshman Rekha. Anyone can proctor a fake unboxing video and these e-Retailers know it. They may be useful when the delivery is third party. Like for the case when buying from online computer shops such as PC Studio, Vedant Computers etc.
5. If you want an actually useful unboxing video that has some weight to it, get the delivery person to open the package on camera. Share the OTP after you're satisfied. Flipkart already does it these days: the delivery person opens the parcel in front of you and records it on his phone.
6. The first line of contact i.e. chat option or call me option on the app is useless. It's only for petty issues. The people on the line are scum. They're corporate trained sociopaths who will not help you, and often prematurely close the ticket to call it a day. Your issue never reaches the investigation team. Realize that they're just small-time call center employees with zero authority except to stomp on your complaint. Don't contact them more than once for the initial complaint.
7. Try to document your case in a Twitter thread. It's just easier to just paste a link to the thread wherever you need to explain your case. That way you can avoid inserting photos/videos/text posts which get messy quickly when you gotta complain multiple places and times.
8. When complaining, prefer to send emails over phone calls or the chat option. Nobody cares about recorded phone calls with the CC, or screenshots of chat. As I mentioned, the first line of contact with the CC has no weight.
9. Prefer to shop with a credit card or a card with a purchase protection plan so there is a possibility of filing a chargeback.
10. Getting online traction on your posts does nothing. Only focus your energy in taking concrete steps.
Thank you everyone for the support.
I'm glad it got resolved for you, but I take serious exception to your description of frontline staff as scum.
There are bad apples, but 90% of these people don't make it their life goal to make your life difficult. They have policies and scripts, and if those make it difficult for you to get a refund then the fault is Amazon's, not the agent.
At the same time, it's not possible to be emotionally invested in a customer's issue or its resolution as a tier 1 agent, otherwise you'd be overwhelmed on your first day. The good ones do the best they can within the framework they have, but don't expect them to be emotionally invested, that is not possible.
There are bad apples, but 90% of these people don't make it their life goal to make your life difficult. They have policies and scripts, and if those make it difficult for you to get a refund then the fault is Amazon's, not the agent.
At the same time, it's not possible to be emotionally invested in a customer's issue or its resolution as a tier 1 agent, otherwise you'd be overwhelmed on your first day. The good ones do the best they can within the framework they have, but don't expect them to be emotionally invested, that is not possible.
I disagree with this. Having a video that shows that you are clearly opening a sealed package can go a long way in making your case.
Not every credit card helps, many banks simply wash their hands off saying that you entered OTP and anything further is between you and the vendor. Amex is the better one among the lot.
But, some cards have a specific feature called purchase protection which actually works in cases like this.
Words to live by. Go to a shop, hold it in your hands, verify, buy.
Glad you got your money back OP.
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japjitsingh
Novice
I beg to differ, although I am glad you took offense as it highlights your humanity. Those people are quasi-anonymous. They don't even have real names. On the call, I have often asked them their names which do not match the name on the feedback form that comes afterwards. Likewise, on one of the calls, I asked the CC representative what department she was from. She said it was confidential. As such these are shadow people meant to provide a false sense of security. When it comes to big ticket items, they simply close the case without letting it reach the management. Anytime Amazon is taking you seriously, a customer relations executive will call you. They would have a full name and a designation which would be shared in the email.
Two of these first line of CC literally asked me to open up my CPU packaging, take out the CPU and use it to confirm if it was the wrong product. When I obviously denied saying that it's a ridiculous proposition, she said "Sir agar koi problem aye, toh hum toh baithe hi hain". All this while denying me a replacement in the first place. That's the mindset of these workers. They would say anything just to end the call and make a brownie point that the issue had been closed.
When an executive from the customer relations department called me later, he confirmed that all my complaints were being closed without an investigation. He asked me to discard whatever I had shared with Amazon prior, and start telling him the issue.
Here is a Twitter thread full of cases where Appario, Amazon's flagship seller has duped people by sending junk instead of a high value product without resolution. That's the misery these first line of CC create. Genuine customers suffer while complaints are never allowed to go up to the management.
japjitsingh
Novice
Thanks friend!
I don't believe that unboxing videos are of any special value. People consider it as some irrefutable evidence. Flipkart or Amazon literally do not care about them and do not consider them to be proof. Flipkart has solved the issue by offering open delivery: the delivery person will unbox the package for you and record the video. Amazon has done nothing so far.
Here is a 5 days old case where someone received bars of detergent instead of a MacBook from Amazon's Appario. The person had a 22 minute long unboxing video. Amazon did nothing, and prematurely closed the case thanks to the call center employees.
Here is another case where Amazon simply denied to resolve the issue despite the unboxing video. It's an interesting thread because it also has Amazon's reply to the customer's legal notice.
I believe ultimately, unboxing videos help very little if at all when it comes to Flipkart and Amazon.
Though I recognise their importance for small businesses that rely on third party delivery companies.
Are they not legally tenable ?
How did you open a support ticket via email?
Credit cards is the only reason you should buy anything online. I shudder when some folk choose to pay via UPI for a measly 2% discount and give up all the buyer protection. You only have to get scammed once to lose all the money you saved over the years.
Site doesn't take CC? Bullet dodged. Move on.
@OP regarding refunds: If it's not reflected in your account within 48 hours, they haven't actually initiated the refund. This is just a delay tactic to hold on to your money for as long as possible. You can refer to my post regarding Thrustmaster refund for more details.
japjitsingh
Novice
One can send an email to cs-reply@amazon.in, Amazon will call you within a few hours.
Thanks for the heads up. I will ask them for a Refund Reference Number tomorrow. I have one doubt tho. When I add money to my Amazon ICICI Credit Card, it takes about 3-4-5 days to reflect. Wouldn't it be the same case for a refund? (to the credit card)
Ninja edit: Just checked, I have received the refund. Can confirm it shouldn't take more than 48 hours for the refund to reflect like @n1r0 said.
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Proparhino
Disciple
Glad to hear the refund is initiated! For future reference I just wanted to add some of my experience and advice here for anyone who finds this thread.
Definitely been my experience with Amazon Customer Care. I've ordered things for my parents, and dealt with Customer Care over both chat and phone within India and while I was abroad, as well as email. The fundamental point is not to get caught up in any random speculation with them. Simply say you did not get what you ordered, and ask them to provide the standard for how they resolve such cases, and then hold them to that standard by meeting their requirements. Escalation to managers etc can be useful in some situations, but as long as you are very polite and patient with the first person you're speaking to, in my experience they end up being able to resolve it. If they still show uncertainty, remember that they are generally not allowed to suggest to you that you should escalate or that they cannot themselves approve something with this amount of money. You can then ask to speak to someone higher up.
An important thing to remember is that these calls are recorded and the employees are following scripts etc so that they keep their jobs. So, getting them to give you the procedure for how to prove the wrong product was delivered allows you to stick to that script and not fall into some branch of their flowchart that is reserved for "this customer is lying or in denial". These people have miserable jobs in which they almost solely deal with unhappy customers while having no control over policy; don't antagonise them and don't take any of their disagreements with you personally. I understand that's frustrating and hard, but the point is to get the product you want, not to feel better by yelling at someone who has no power. It took me longer than I am proud to admit to unlearn the habit of being rude or sarcastic with Customer Care people; it's an easy outlet after all.
Good luck with this @japjitsingh, I hope the money returns soon and you get the thing you want.
Definitely been my experience with Amazon Customer Care. I've ordered things for my parents, and dealt with Customer Care over both chat and phone within India and while I was abroad, as well as email. The fundamental point is not to get caught up in any random speculation with them. Simply say you did not get what you ordered, and ask them to provide the standard for how they resolve such cases, and then hold them to that standard by meeting their requirements. Escalation to managers etc can be useful in some situations, but as long as you are very polite and patient with the first person you're speaking to, in my experience they end up being able to resolve it. If they still show uncertainty, remember that they are generally not allowed to suggest to you that you should escalate or that they cannot themselves approve something with this amount of money. You can then ask to speak to someone higher up.
An important thing to remember is that these calls are recorded and the employees are following scripts etc so that they keep their jobs. So, getting them to give you the procedure for how to prove the wrong product was delivered allows you to stick to that script and not fall into some branch of their flowchart that is reserved for "this customer is lying or in denial". These people have miserable jobs in which they almost solely deal with unhappy customers while having no control over policy; don't antagonise them and don't take any of their disagreements with you personally. I understand that's frustrating and hard, but the point is to get the product you want, not to feel better by yelling at someone who has no power. It took me longer than I am proud to admit to unlearn the habit of being rude or sarcastic with Customer Care people; it's an easy outlet after all.
Good luck with this @japjitsingh, I hope the money returns soon and you get the thing you want.
japjitsingh
Novice
Also tagging @Santy whose post on this forum about receiving a junk CPU in sealed packaging made me sign up and share my experience here. Santy, I think this will be an interesting and nostalgic read for you.
It takes time because you actually depositing money to your a/c. With CC transactions, everything happens on trust/agreement basis. The bank tells that you are good for the money and the seller can proceed; they don't actually get the money until later. So if the charge is disputed, the bank will try to get to the truth of the matter, unlike with Debit cards/UPI/NEFT, etc, where you are actually sending your money into seller's a/c directly. Your bank doesn't care what happens next.
So basically, CC transactions/reversals are fast since there isn't actual money involved.
Yay! Congrats!!
So this I feel is important. They can't even escalate before following some scripts first. For you this might be a rare occurence, but it's their everyday plight.
That said, sometimes these guys say refund is initiated, but you don't get it even after a week. Best was when one supervisor told me to call my bank and ask them why I haven't received the refund, with no transaction/reference number
japjitsingh
Novice
My experience with the CC prohibits me from sympathizing with them. If someone defends them by insisting that they cannot be invested in a customer's case since they get many a day, I say they're not doing their jobs. Sympathizing with the customer and getting to the root cause of the issue is literally their job. We spent our money to be on the phone call, while they earn money to be on the phone call.
Just felt like sharing when browsing through Twitter I came across this snippet of conversation someone had with CC. They ordered a graphics card, received a bunch of rubbish hardrives. Everything was recorded and shown to the call center employee. Just listen to him.
That was my experience too. Rude, condescending, ignorant and good-for-nothing leeches are the CC people.
(Please refrain from moral lectures when reading this.)
By the way, my message isn't directed to anyone here particularly. Just generally speaking and raising awareness about the treatment to expect from the Amazon CC.
Just felt like sharing when browsing through Twitter I came across this snippet of conversation someone had with CC. They ordered a graphics card, received a bunch of rubbish hardrives. Everything was recorded and shown to the call center employee. Just listen to him.
That was my experience too. Rude, condescending, ignorant and good-for-nothing leeches are the CC people.
(Please refrain from moral lectures when reading this.)
By the way, my message isn't directed to anyone here particularly. Just generally speaking and raising awareness about the treatment to expect from the Amazon CC.
Proparhino
Disciple
I think here is where a misunderstanding lies. I completely agree that this ought to be their job; that Customer Care should be trying to help customers. However, in status quo their job is to protect their employers, and that is how their employer judges their performances. This means Customer Care is incentivised to be antagonistic towards customers: the fundamental determinant of whether they keep their job is how well they save money for the company.
This is a completely twisted system, of course, so it is very important to identify the real cause behind your experience. Amazon's prescribed scripts and regulations for their employees are what got you stuck having to prove something in this painful manner. No employee is trying to make more work for themselves: it would obviously be much less work to simply approve requests without disagreement. If we assume that everyone will do the least work necessary in their job, the fact that they don't approve refunds easily means that they can't, not that they don't want to. The example of the extremely rude person in the Twitter thread (and your personal experience @japjitsingh) can be better contextualised in this way. The point isn't to justify their behaviour (there is no justification for being rude like this) but to explain it.
Strongly encourage reading the following two examples of scholarship [1] [2] that explore the specific conditions that explain customer care call centres. There is also ethnographic work done in and on Indian call centres in particular, with one example [3] capturing what the authors call "depersonalised bullying" that employees experience in that space. Another example [4] addresses the pressures genereated by the globalised call centres where Indians become customer service agents for US customers.
Again, I don't want to say that any of their actions are OK or something we should accept, quite the opposite. This is an anti-consumer system that robs us of many of the normal entitlements we used to be due before ecommerce became widespread. My argument is to correctly identify the causally relevant origin of the system; the frontline customer care employees are themselves symptoms and not causes of a bad customer care experience.
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