So whose Bombay is it anyway?

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blr_p said:
The show was not for the middle class ppl but for the working class who i suspect is where the vote bank lies for reasons Funky elaborated above. Resonates with the audience it has been crafted for as they feel the brunt more than the middle class. So long as mumbai does *not* go to the dogs then the numbers will be limited.
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Well, yes, it was not for the middle class, but i get this feeling tht if later on if this thing turns into something uglier, then even the middle class ppl will have to bear the brunt. I dont want to put this in the same league as the hindu muslim riots of 1993 (its far from it) but things do turn ugly sometimes...evn in 93, the middle class ppl had to bear the brunt of the vandals and rioters. Many families were destroyed then..same probably happened in gujrat..what we are seeing here now may not be a communal disturbance and more like a clash between 2 parties, but the politicans can turn it to one in no time..:no: They cud make it look like a war between maharashtrians and north indians..:no: India has witnessed a small incident turning big and ugly many a times already..the hindu sikh fallout after blue star in 83, the babri masjid and the following ugliest riots of indian history, then gujrat...all these started as a minor incident but turned really horrible in no time...

now if the samajwadi party ppl try to hit back in their own way then it wont take long for the matter to get out of hand...:no: Who knows those idiots may actually be planning some retaliatory action against raj thakeray's maharashtra navnirman sena...:no: Raj thakeray is only trying to play Bal thakeray part 2 in mumbai..:no: And he is going to fail miserably in doing that...:no:

And you can thank news channels continuously airing those scenes on tv...:P They actually make a small incident look so big by calling in numorous politicians, debates and all BS..:no: It wud not be wrong to say tht sometimes, its bcos of the media tht things take an ugly turn...:no:
 
The problem is in our head, regionalism is a menace and if we let it thrive it it will snowball in a major problem. What's happening now is just the start. And unless we can individually remove it from our head worse things will follow. Nobody admits it but under the cover of anonymity you can see these attitudes come alive, for instance the rediff boards are ample evidence of this where posters use anonymity to express what they really feel and that's blatant regionalism.

Renaming it to Mumbai was the first step, that move was superficial and misguided on possibly every front, disenfranchising the entire non maharashtrian population of their history and their part in this great city. Do we believe in India? Are we all Indians or do we want to be Gujaratis, Maharashtrians, Bengalis, Biharis, Tamils etc. This sort of superficial renaming as has happened in most major cities is just designed distract from the lack of real progress on the ground, and create an illusion of progress/change catering to the lowest common denominator and tribal instincts.

Politicians thrive of divisive ideologies, that guarantees them a votebank, an escape from accountability, results and and an opportunity to engage in unchecked graft.

Yet we keep on electing the same people who are openly regionalistic, not only in Maharashtra but in other states too. And this is an endless opportunity for the wily, first non maharashtrians, then maharashtrians from one particular part of the state, then some sub group and this can go on and on.

In every instance politicians are exploiting the weakest sections of these groups for their personal gain and alas this is the risk of democracy that we have to accept hence without an educated and liberal population you will always have an imperfect democracy.

In an issue like this that is appealing to maharashtrians there is going to be sharp division of opinion between the maharashtrians and non-mahrashtrians. This is not a fault of maharashtrians in a particular, it would happen to every region and thats why this exploitative politics is dangerous. One can only hope for the best. Perhaps the original mistake was in having states based on linguistic lines.
 
raul said:
Renaming it to Mumbai was the first step, that move was superficial and misguided on possibly every front, disenfranchising the entire non maharashtrian population of their history and their part in this great city. Do we believe in India? Are we all Indians or do we want to be Gujaratis, Maharashtrians, Bengalis, Biharis, Tamils etc. This sort of superficial renaming as has happened in most major cities is just designed distract from the lack of real progress on the ground, and create an illusion of progress/change catering to the lowest common denominator and tribal instincts.
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Totally agree with you on tht, pal..Probably the reason why i chose to use 'Bombay' in the thread title instead of 'Mumbai'. Its like snatching a part of history from everybody's memories who have been a part of this city for ages. I dont understand who gave them the authority to change the name of something as important as a historic city which is as much a part of indian heritage as it is a part of the world heritage. Ppl around the world have known this city as Bombay for ages. Now all of a sudden some crackpot come along and decides tht this city shud be known as Mumbai from now onwards..:no: India boasts of being the largest democracy in the world. Did they idiots even conduct a public survey before deciding to change the name of a city forever?? :no: What was the central government doing then? Sleeping? :S

How can a bunch of lousy politicians be allowed to decide what a city which is known for its heritage and historical importance be called as??

No matter, even if the the British rule over india was considered to be a dark period for India, it is as much a part of our history as the mughals and asoka before them...:no: No one can deny tht and there is a strong and visible impression of the British culture and architecture in Bombay. All of a sudden someone decides tht all those 150 years were a fallacy..tht it never actually happened?? And how to do that? By changing names of the city's most important locations according to their will. So Victoria Terminus, the most important entry way to the city becomes Chhatrapati Shivaji terminus...flora fountain become hootatma chowk...and many more such examples...what crap is all this? Why cant we accept history the way it is? No matter how much Germans may try to forget those dark years of holocaust, it is very much a part of their history. They cannot deny it. So why cant we indians accept our share of history the way it is? :S

Alienating ppl from the history of this city by renaming it favoring one particular community is something tht i can never come to terms with. and i'm sure there are many others including many maharashtrians themselves, who feel the same way. (many of my maharashtrian friends agree on this. )

Yesterday, on some news channel, a spokesperson of Raj Thakeray's party was hell bent to correct a news reader who called Mumbai 'Bambai'...he wudnt answer unless the news reader corrected himself. Ultimately the news reader had to apologize and correct himself. :|

I dont care what those half a** idiots say, i'll still prefer to call Mumbai as Bombay, Kolkata as Calcutta and Bengaluru as Bangalore. And no one can make me say otherwise. :| Let them go to hell. And i'm sure there are many who wud agree on that..
 
Private Ryan said:
..but i get this feeling tht if later on if this thing turns into something uglier, then even the middle class ppl will have to bear the brunt. ..what we are seeing here now may not be a communal disturbance and more like a clash between 2 parties, but the politicans can turn it to one in no time..:no: They cud make it look like a war between maharashtrians and north indians..:no: India has witnessed a small incident turning big and ugly many a times already..the hindu sikh fallout after blue star in 83, the babri masjid and the following ugliest riots of indian history, then gujrat...all these started as a minor incident but turned really horrible in no time...
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It's the degree of that perceived threat that gives them currency.

Can we call their bluff ?

Otherwise the only way to ever find out is for the play to come to its conclusion. High stakes gamble here :)

Shake things up and see what drops out, they dont care if ppl get killed, this is an experiment to see what the masses think & will do. If nothing comes of it think up another idea. Rinse & Repeat.

Don't they have laws against instigating public uprisings ?
 
I have had first hand experience of how Shiv sena blew a simple fight between 2 students in JJ hospital to a fight between north India and maharashtrians specially bihar.That was way back in nov 2005 I guess.Some of u might remember it.It happened right infront of me and I saw how things were blown out of proportion by media and shiv sena.No one knew what really happened not even the media.
 
this game has been going on for ages ...anti hindi riots in tamilnadu, antitamil in karnataka, anti tamil in mumbai before and now anti everyone ..... even antitamil in malaysia.....didnt change before ...wont change in near future,
 
^ sad but true,

And it isn't restricted to just regionalism, about 5 years back, the students in our college decided to protest peacefully because the college was levying a fine of 100/- per lecture missed. 3 days it was peaceful, then some Jacka$$ from some idiot student wing came in and started giving a speech about how the lab fees are too much etc. I mean wtf? Luckily the college management diffused the strike on the same day itself and everything went back to normal.

Any bloody opportunity that presents itself will be exploited in a divisive way by any and all political parties without any regard for anyone else.

Methinks the whole political system is in need of a drastic revamp. And, more importantly, the middle class shoud get off its a$$ and get involved in such matters and stop just b**ching about it while sitting on the couch, doing nothing.
 
I don't know why this keeps happening again and again.....
These f**king politicians are worse than the BRITISH RAJ ...To this very day they are working on the princple of Divide and Conquer....
If Maharashtrians want jobs why don't they get one like everyone else..... Its not like they would be denied work if they say they are Maharshtrians....
Disrupting peace in a city thats known for its peaceful nature is madness .....
 
u know this whole country was divided into a lot of small states before the british conquered them. they used to fight against each other over petty things (like these small issues, no doubt). the corrupt ministers in those small states sold themselves to the british for a few pennies, and ultimately the british ruled over india (bharat) for around 150 years.

sadly, i see history repeating itself now. most probably in the years to come we'll be ruled by china (i hope not) or usa (worst place on earth). britain will not come in the picture cause they have already ruled and know that indian ppl are no good ruling over - no discipline, no manners, and above all no unity.

bunch of half brained idiots is what comes to my mind in describing indians. sadly i'm one of them.
 
raul said:
Perhaps the original mistake was in having states based on linguistic lines.
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Bingo!

There is a real infrastructural issue with the influx of people. And the influx has not yet stopped.

There is a second problem of increasing prices of property. This is also not arrested yet.

The last four companies I've prospected have decided to set up in Delhi/NCR, as the living conditions and setup cost are far lower there, than in Mumbai.

The real solution does not unfortunately lie either in Mumbai or Delhi, but in the villages and small towns, from where the influx comes. Economic growth and prosperity need to start there, not in urban centers. That keeps people at home, that creates lesser pressure on city infrastructure, and gradually drives up (equalises with a developed country) the price, remuneration and quality of labour all across the country.

However I'm not sure Sunday's incident was even marginally rooted in this sentiment. Regionalism is a two-edged sword, on the one hand it helps us achieve a sense of identity and uniqueness, on the other it creates a paranoia of being swallowed into a larger structure with less meaning. The incident was most likely a shot at exploiting that fear. We know how far mobs can go.

I've not been in Bombay too long, but long enough to know that a lot needs to be done. But like Funky said, this is not the way to achieve it. For every great thing we have ever achieved, we have one (or more) black mark on our nation like this one.
 
One step forward, two steps back :)

..so long as there is a step forward for every 2 back, at least there is some forward movement.

The lingustic division which happened in 1956 (?) is credited with keeping the south and all their wonderful culture within the country. Yes, it makes it easy to exploit differences between the ppl but i think the main goal of unity has been achieved. It may not be perfect but in hindsight got the job done with least effort.

I find the idea of indianisation of city names, perceived as non-inclusive of those from out-of-state, interesting.

I was not in India when this happened and was under the impression it was a way for the country to part with its colonial past, to rid itself of the anglicised version and return the cities to their original monikers.

The other thought i'm having is do the working class in mumbai outnumber the middle class ?

..if so then there will be very good pickings to be had, come election time :(, given that the middle class does not vote as much as the other. I think this above all is the main reason we get these kinds of disturbances uniquely in India. The lowest common denominator through sheer numbers has shown it matters. Funny that, given its corporations that matter only in the west.
 
BIKeINSTEIN said:
There are additional clauses that need to be added at the time of issue/renewal and are chraged extra at some percent of IEV.
More than theft, i used to be worried about such crap and that's why paid extra for insuring against- Riot, Strike, Earthquake, Flood.
Dunno if this incident is classified as riot(should be most prolly, imho) or they only consider events where it's declared a riot and the area is curfewed or something. :P
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A serious concern this threat of vandalism has become these days. I'm gonna ask my insurer about it when I renew the policy this year :cool2: .
 
since the question was asked to marathi people here .. i would say its total bullshit .. really felt sorry for that poor taxi guy..:(

anyways, people who follow such politicians have no brain, are dumb.. or they do it for money ..either way its wrong..

not every marathi is a supporter of shiv sena or whatever this party is called :rofl:
 
raul said:
Renaming it to Mumbai was the first step, that move was superficial and misguided on possibly every front, disenfranchising the entire non maharashtrian population of their history and their part in this great city. Do we believe in India? Are we all Indians or do we want to be Gujaratis, Maharashtrians, Bengalis, Biharis, Tamils etc.
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Do you even know the history of Mumbai before making such stupid statements.

Anyway this is is just politics. Politicians from northeastern states hate ppl coming from bihar and up, even delhi CM said delhi has so many problems bcoz of migrants, even in banglore there are similar problems.
 
Hacker: Grow up, You can disagree with me without resorting to childish abuse. This is a forum discussion not a fight.

Cities have a life beyond a single generation's biases, prejudices, ideas and thoughts. Such faddish renaming in a casual cavalier fashion destroys the soul of a city that has lived for more than 300 years before us and will live for thousands more after us. You can't erase history however unpalatable it is, you can understand, come to terms and respect it. That's maturity.

Plus it doesn't solve anything, what purpose does renaming address apart from catering to parochial and tribal instincts and fanning them which is the path down to chaos and tribalism. It's a token, empty and exploitative gesture, and that's what's happening now, isn't it. But having said that if the majority want to rename never mind what me or anyone else thinks then we have to respect democratic principles.

For me Mumbai is still Bombay, Kolkata is still Calcutta. Those names have their own magic and communicate far more of their history and charm to me than Mumbai. Bombay is cosmopolitan, Mumbai is not. Bombay is far more reflective of the character of the city over its history as a place where different groups of people have come, struggled, lived together, and contributed to the growth of city into what it is now over generations. A liberal, cosmopolitan and international city, far more tolerant of differences than the rest of India. Its a melting pot and without this melting pot Bombay would not be what it is. That's its nature, that's its history. Perhaps future generations who are more secure of their identities will see the error of our ways revert these cities their rightful names.

History is wonderful, take one instance Constantinople - Istanbul. Now tell me if the new names communicate even half the magic or mystery of the old name. But religious and other differences means people want to erase their own history. As future generations we can look at things more dispassionately and appreciate our common history. Peace.
 
Totally agree with you on tht, pal..Probably the reason why i chose to use 'Bombay' in the thread title instead of 'Mumbai'. Its like snatching a part of history from everybody's memories who have been a part of this city for ages. I dont understand who gave them the authority to change the name of something as important as a historic city which is as much a part of indian heritage as it is a part of the world heritage. Ppl around the world have known this city as Bombay for ages. Now all of a sudden some crackpot come along and decides tht this city shud be known as Mumbai from now onwards..
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Dude the city was named Bombay by the British!! The name Mumbai originates from the Mumbadevi godess...so renaming it Mumbai wasnt a crackpot idea it was just honouring the local sentiments.....

All communities take pride in the customs and activities but when it comes to Mumbai and Maharashtrains i dont know why ppl seem to get so aggiatated about it?

Mumbai is a comsopolitian city but that doesnt mean you sideline the natives!
 
How does calling it Bombay sideline the natives, are people who may be living in Mumbai for decades or even hundreds of years not natives of Bombay.

On another level are 'Indians' outsiders in other states. Have we totally lost respect for the idea of India. How can I be an outsider in my own country.

Guys please is this the sort of talk we should hear from new generations of Indians who should be free of narrow biases presuming the profile of people here at techenclave is youngish and educated. I am so disappointed.
 
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