So whose Bombay is it anyway?

[Safin]

Fighting over names is very foolish.

I think it was first of all wrong to rename it Mumbai. But now that it has been done, sticking to Bombay is even more.

This is another Indian fascination with Britain. I don't think the issue should at all be about why it was renamed, it should be does it justify the cost of the changes required. If the cost(for arguments sake was nil) then there is no harm in calling it what it was called by Indians. If british can't pronounce Mumbai and made it Bombay to make it easier for themselves it doesn't mean we have to accept it also. For us that word has a meaning. What i have objection to is the money spent in the exercise. Having said that I as an Indian would prefer Indian names. No country keeps renaming its cities cos the foreigners like it that way.

 

[Shripad]

agreed. I studied in Marathi medium school. Our textbooks always had the city named as Mumbai and not Bombay. This was even before it was renamed to Mumbai. When speaking to other marathi people, relatives most of the times we used to call it Mumbai only so renaming the city to Mumbai was not an issue for me. I actually liked the idea that the name was restored.

This is where the native ideas come in, we never felt it was wrong to rename it to Mumbai from Bombay as we knew that name from our childhood since birth. But we never had problem with the english name Bombay.

But just to inform you people that it was always named Mumbai in marathi language books, maps, govt documents. its just that it was spelled as Bombay in english. Changing it to mumbai was just changing official english language name.

Even our country is called by different names in English and Hindi. So leave this name debate alone. Mumbai is the local name so I dont see anything wrong in calling it by that name the same way I dont feel calling Chennai as Chennai and Kolkata as Kolkata.

I am sure people living in these areas grew up knowing this name from childhood from their parents.

 

[SharekhaN]

I think the whole idea of the fight or clash does not apply to the middle class or upper middle class strata of society.

When a state as huge as Maharashtra does not have the power to provide for its own people , such questions are bound to come up.

Has anyone really looked outside Mumbai, perhaps answers will be found then. Its very much like any other under developed state, low employment , illiteracy hounds them, so the prospect of jobs in a place like Mumbai is something they would consider.

But when people in similar situations in our neighboring states get jobs in Mumbai, people from Maharashtra will have nothing but angst, but that again is human nature.

So the question is right, if properly thought over.

Also i think the major reason why Raj Thackeray got pissed is due to the prospect of celebrating "UP day" in Mumbai as proposed by someother political party.

Which i think is foolish as well.

 

[Rahul++]

I am marathi by default :rofl: but completely disagree with Raj Thakre.. I dont understand, why is he doing this?

I all happy to live in Mumbai. Even Marathi peoples never asked any questions to others that y are they here?? but i dunno whats his problem..

No Jai Maharashtra, no jai U.P. Let it be Jay India

poor taxi and rickshaw drivers.. Raj must have to give them money for their loss

F**king politicians...

 

[Chaos]

This entire issue has been blown up far beyond conceivable proportions by idiots seeking political mileage. I guess this raj dude tried to gain support from marathi speaking folks by this ridiculous stunt but I think it backfired really bad. After all this rubbish he should be put behind bars and so should all the retards that indulged in vandalism.

Also i think the major reason why Raj Thackeray got pissed is due to the prospect of celebrating "UP day" in Mumbai as proposed by someother political party.

Which i think is foolish as well.

Whether one celebrates UP day/MP day/AP day/national lampoon day/rudyard kipling day or groundhog day is one's prerogative :rofl: . As long as it doesnt denigrate anyone/anything and is celebrated in a peaceful manner, its perfectly okay to do so. Its a free country afterall and anyone who tries to block that freedom(read raj whatever) deserves to be put behind bars.

 

[KingKrool]

The fact is there is a statue of Shivaji in Agra. And that is good. The Shiv Sena / MNStries to make him out to be a Marathi hero alone, but he should be considered an Indian hero. According to the actions of these people, that statue should be removed.

I hate regionalism, and I hate it with a vengeance.

 

[snoopfrog]

just a few days back i remember thinking whats up with the SS goons these days, so quiet.

 

[raja iyer]

people got in local trains at kurla and santacruz trying to identify the non maharashtrians yesterday, beating up many. but even after all this no action has been taken against raj thakeray. amazing.
of course he has the blessings of india inc's 'flexilaw' system! change the law whenever and however u want - for peolpe with money and clout.
all the others? - be damned!

 

[cool_dude]

Friends, I visit TE everyday and read the threads(not all, very few of my interest.) I seldom participate though, mainly because I don't think I am very strong technically and also because I am quite busy.

I must say that I was shocked by what Raj Thakray did and do not condole what he did or said but I was also shocked to see some of the comments made in this forum.

Now, I am not going to say anything, but I am just going to ask you a few questions. Can you please answer them?
1) Let's say that your name is Abhijeet and by the grace of god you are slightly fat. Since your early age, friends have been calling you 'Samosa'. Now, do you make that your official name because it 'reflects' your nature? Or, let's say, some guys in UK find it difficult to pronounce your name, they pronounce it as 'Abbey'. Now do you make 'Abbey' your official name?
Can you please tell me how the name 'Bombay' correctly reflects the true nature of this city? This offending name was coined by British and the original name of city is Mumbai. Am I wrong if I expect you to use that name? Am I wrong if I get angry because some of you use the original name deliberately?

2) I visit Mumbai often and find that nobody wants to speak/use Marathi there.( Pay attention to the word 'wants'. They can speak or learn to speak Marathi if they want to, it's very easy.) Even the boards on the shops are in Gujarati/Hindi/Tamil. I reckon Mumbai is the capital of Maharashtra and Marathi is the official language of Maharashtra. If I expect people in Mumbai to speak/use Marathi, am I wrong? (Now don't give me crap like Mumbai is the economical capitol of India, tomorrow you will call every city of Maharashtra economical capitol of India, does it mean that we should abandon Marathi alltogether?)
You don't dare to do this in Tamilnadu, do you? Or do you behave like this here just because people don't say anything?

3) Let's say that you are living happily in your beautiful home with your family. A guy who is a immigrant and who is dying from hunger, comes to your house and begs to you. You are very kind and allow him stay with you. Now, he brings 1 more friend, 1 more after that and soon 20 of them. Now, as they outnumber you, they claim that the home is theirs and ask you to vacate the house. Will you agree? If you agree, give me your address and I will come to live in your house with my 20 friends. After all we all are 'Indians'/'brothers', right?
4) Let's say that you are living peacefully in a small community. Now someone comes to your area, builds illegal shanties, doesn't pay any taxes(and uses all the resources), starts harassing you. Naturally, the capacity of the community to sustain inhabitants is crossed. The strain is so much that your lives are made miserable. Will you still be happy?
5) Am I wrong if I am a middle-class person and my only wish is to buy a nice home to live? The prices of properties in Mumbai/Pune are rising and who is to blame for this? The (already rich) people who come to these cities with heavy pockets and buy houses at ridiculous prices.
6) Am I wrong if I complain because the students from UP/Delhi/Bihar living here are a menace? These rogues party late, don't respect the law, eve tease the local girls. Recently in Kothrud, they even set fire to a few two wheelers in the society they were living because the residents contacted Police. I recently read that 50% of all the crimes in Pune were by outsiders. What is your view on this?
It's OK when Sheela Dixit says that immigrant workers are causing a lot of problems in Delhi, it's OK when Karnataka CM says that he is thinking about giving a reservation quota in IT sector for Kannadigas in Karnataka, it's OK when WB guys harass the national cricket team just because Ganguly was omitted, it's OK when UP guys pelt stones at a bus from Goa because they looked like foreign tourists, it's OK when Hindi speaking people are shot dead in Assam but when Maharastrians say that immigrants are really taking a toll now and their influx should be stopped, you have a problem!

Well, I really don't have anything against people from other states. Infact Maharashtra will be the last state to do anything that will be a threat to the unity of our country. I respect Marathi culture, its heritage and its people. And I think you should respect your respective states as well, nothing wrong with that. A lot of Maharashtrians are there in MP(Indore), AP(Hyderabad), have you heard anything against them? A lot of people from other states are in Maharashtra as well.(Gujaratis, Marwaris, South indians.) Did we say anything so far? We didn't, right? But the situation is going out of control now and something must be done. The incidents like this will only stop when the huge influx of people coming to Maharashtra stops. I say again, I don't have any problem with the people already here as long as they respect Maharashtra, its culture, its language.

And don't ridicule the 'Jai Maharastra' quote, always remember that it is always said as 'Jai Hind, Jai Maharastra'! Sadly you guys ignored the 'Jai Hind' part which always comes first.

'Jai Hind, Jai Maharastra', Abhijeet.

 

[cranky]

Immigration is a problem faced by developed cities and countries all over the world. You are seeing it through one lens (which is not a problem per se).

The root of the issue does not lie here, even if we face the consequences. And when I say 'we', treat it with a broad swath of contempt, as I am not from Mumbai. I am an immigrant.

Now see it through another filter. A poor, uneducated villager has a family of six to support. They have food shortages, no power, no schools, no toilets. Agriculture does not pay and the laws of the land do not exist. They've heard of the magical land where money is available, and they can make enough to stay alive and send back money. Then they bring one relative, another, and so on.

As long as the city provides, they will take. When the city cannot provide, they will move. This is universal, and has been the way men have been for thousands of years. What makes you think that a political agenda will change that? The only thing that's changed is the nature of the nomadism - and what you hunt for. And then would you like to put a moniker on it by the name of the region? Will you accept someone from within the state, and not someone from outside it? What is the dividing line? What gives you the right to divide the line - a bad decision made sixty years ago? What is your point of view on people from the state crossing out of the state for better prospects, for jobs, for their future, for their family?

Like I said earlier, the root of the issue is not in Mumbai or in Maharashtra. It is not in any one state - it's a national issue. The problem is that no one will take ownership of the problem or even acknowledge it. We've seen Nandigram, the farmer suicides in Maharsahtra and the Mango kernel controversy in Orissa. The administration keeps it quiet, the only reason is that it can. Those are the real problems of the country, and though we are progressing gradually towards rural development, think about how big the country is, how deep seated corruption is, and what kind of effort is required to fix these issues.

The next time the garbage stink reaches you, think of people who don't have a toilet. Or if you're stuck in traffic, think of the guy who has to walk ten kilometers every day in the sun to earn a living. Or if your power goes out, of the people whose life shuts down at 7 o'clock because there isn't anything called power.

And about point number one in post #49. Just because you have four walls around you, does not mean you own that space. You are a temporary resident of a location paid for with paper money, and in accordance with human law. Nothing to do with reality of life or nature, which is well above all of this.

Also does not mean it is inevitable. I've said earlier, you should raise your voice. There are letters you can write to your councillor. There are elections where you can express your mandate at a city level, state level and a national level. If you are defeated enough to not acknowledge this as a source of power and an outlet for your voice, then don't complain and say you have no control over it. Because we can change things, one thing at a time.

Whose Bombay is it anyway? Nobody's, nobody can own it. The root of all wars is man laying claim to land which he thinks is his. When in reality, it is available to one and all.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[elendil]

Bravo.. Brilliantly put !!

BTW, for all who think Bombay is a bad name, Its roots are not English but Portuguese, Bombein - meaning Good(Bom) Bein(bay).

Why is that such a bad name.. What is in a name ??

I for one have no hassles with Mumbai. It was always the local name but I found the change totally unnecessary. The amount of money spent on it was really stupid. Think about how many hungry kids could have eaten with the money spent on changing stationary, visiting cards, sign boards etc etc.

 

[Supra]

but when Maharastrians say that immigrants are really taking a toll now and their influx should be stopped, you have a problem!

Its like saying if pig is eating shit....why dnt we eat us as well. Cmon if everybody behaves like that what will happen! Bombay is really regarded safe considered to any other city in India....& everybody wants it to be like that.

Also if you say no one can migrate , then well its a fundamental right for anyone in the country to stay anywhere. Its upto the govt to see that economic growth reaches all throught. Now who is to blame for that....wont u agree ppl frm insides of maharashtra come to mumbai for work...its just like that. Why r u guys taking names of states I dnt have a damn idea. And everytime such discussions come one hero will always land up with this BS. This time also we r nt spared. Of cuz ppl like this only becomes heros :rofl: or so called politicians

And don't ridicule the 'Jai Maharastra' quote, always remember that it is always said as 'Jai Hind, Jai Maharastra'! Sadly you guys ignored the 'Jai Hind' part which always comes first.

Well I dont see that enough to be honest....u also know it I guess....see the reality on the street. Its nothing to be ashamed off like here in bangalore where autowalla 50% of the days roam with a karnataka flag ....& on republic day also u do no find them with a national flag.

The incidents like this will only stop when the huge influx of people coming to Maharashtra stops.

Excellent to find such word coming frm an educated techie. If our so called next gen is like this...well our country will go to something more than the dogs

 

[raul]

The problem is not the name change but the reason for which which it was done, to cater to narrow regional feelings by the Shiv Sena. The point in if you believe in India you cannot support these ideas and think in terms of maharashtrians and non-maharashtrians, how can an Indian feel like an outsider in his own country? How is that logical? The problems of overpopulation and overcrowding cannot be solved in narrow terms of maharashtrians and non-maharashtrians. Who are we fooling. This just doesn't make sense.

Already we are hearing reports of violence in other places against people from Maharashtra from the same type of bigots that started it here, is this the country we want, everyone back to their own 'home states' thus India ceases to exist. Narrow regionalism can only appeal to bigots however you care to justify it.

And why are people throwing the red herring of the British in this discussion. If it was such a big issue, people who proved their patriotism with blood and life for India during independence and after would have changed the names.

Strangely to our founding fathers and thousands of freedom fighters who took over the country from the British this wasn't something that occurred to them, never discussed, never an issue. They were happy with the names, but a new generation of 'patriots' whose only claim to fame is corruption and ceaseless personal enrichment exploiting regionalism for narrow personal gain comes naturally, an inevitable corollary of their incompetence and its sad that people fall for this.

 

[Wraith]

The incidents like this will only stop when the huge influx of people coming to Maharashtra stops.

Excellent to find such word coming frm an educated techie. If our so called next gen is like this...well our country will go to something more than the dogs

This is happening everywhere ya...look at UK for example they have disallowed south east asians docs from coming to UK because they want to keep jobs for their locals or europeans...

So what is happening in Mumbai is nothing new....we all know how strained the citys resources are and with more ppl coming in everyday the situation is getting worse by the day....
I am not supporting violence but the issue of out of state immigrants is a real one and not something that is made up....
Raj Thackeray used the wrong means...there is no justification for hitting ppl or burning cars etc...

He is using to the issue to gain the confidence of the working class maharashtrians who the most affected by this situation....but the problem is a real one...
This is further compounded by the lack of initiatives taken either by the State Govt or the Central Govt to improve the infrastructure of the city...

We cant just say that we wont allow anyone to come into the city but neither can the city sustain so many ppl.....this is a fact which has to be accepted...

This is what i said on FE....

The politicians duly take advantage of the desparate state of these ppl by luring them with legal water supply n electricity in any shanti that comes up!! along railway tracks....on foothpaths...close to the airports...
Sometimes even legalising unauthorised slums in the process....this just invites more ppl to come into the city...
When such slums are to be demolised the politicians create a huge ruckass about the whole thing and claiming how mumbai belongs to the entire country and how everyone contributes to its growth!!

But does the Centre really care about the city?? The Central govt has majority representation from the northen states and the same govt has never really cared about Mumbai...its always been neglected.
Even the politicians representing the state dont give a damm about the city's or the state's condition and the worsing quality of life...no wonder the avg maharastrian feels aggrieved....

Look at the attitude of the taxi drivers in mumbai...most dont care where you want to travel...they'll want to ply on particular routes...and act arrogant at times....80% of the taxi drivers are north indians. I am not saying all taxi drivers are the same or all bad....but its a big issue in mumbai when you to wave to a stop a taxi and the driver refuses to go to your desitination or acts smart when you dont have change!
Is this a casual relationship? or is there more to it?

Even when looking at the situation from the healthcare perspective, if you were to survey the ppl coming to opds at govt hosp in mumbai you'd find a large no. of north indians....

This is proably because of the lack of adequate healthcare facilities in their homestates and who is to blame for that?? Mumbai cant provide for the entire country can it?

 

[Chaos]

This is happening everywhere ya...look at UK for example they have disallowed south east asians docs from coming to UK because they want to keep jobs for their locals or europeans...

Hello Sir... are you out of your mind? UK can very well do what it wants as its a country. It doesn't have to care a damn about what happens to south asian doctors. Maharashtra is a part of India for heaven's sake and as an Indian I have all the rights to live in any damn part of the country I want. This analogy is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.

 

[Supra]

cant help it ....but all BS points all over ur post.

This is happening everywhere ya...look at UK for example they have disallowed south east asians docs from coming to UK because they want to keep jobs for their locals or europeans...

This is the same country dammit.....not migration from a country to another one. Wont a good doc graduating from say Delhi if gets a chance serve in prestigious Lilavati Hospital ! How come u even compare to the UK scenario. By the way u r telling its violating the fundamental right...and doing that u know to what anyone can be booked for.

We cant just say that we wont allow anyone to come into the city but neither can the city sustain so many ppl.....this is a fact which has to be accepted...

Instead of dng this Raj why doesn't Raj do something against the govt & demand for proper facilities etc. I cant even a see a strong word against them from u....waah saar

Fact accepted by u , but none of us ...u cant barge in word for other ppl to be accepted

ook at the attitude of the taxi drivers in mumbai...most dont care where you want to travel...they'll want to ply on particular routes...and act arrogant at times....80% of the taxi drivers are north indians.

Thats ur sad mentality....its like thinking a 12 yr old girl giving suggestive signals....i hope u get the point. Autos/taxis r the same everywhere. Come to chennai where all r driven by mainly natives & u will know what u have come across!

Even when looking at the situation from the healthcare perspective, if you where to survey the ppl coming to opds at govt hosp in mumbai you'd find a large no. of north indians....

What do u mean by that.....in any country its like that. I hope ppl to be happy seeing best medicare facilities in their city & instead of that putting in a sad way ppl frm other states come. If u have brains this is beneficial for the city, the state coffers.

This is proably because of the lack of adequate healthcare facilities in their homestates and who is to blame for that?? Mumbai cant provide for the entire country can it?

Mumbaikars r accomodating & a few morons of less than 1% wont be able to change that

I finsh at this...Amen

 

[Wraith]

^^ you sure can live in any part of the country....nor i am saying that you should deny entry to any Indian citizen any part of the country...

Also you cant solely blame ppl for coming into the city esp when the Govt is doing nothing to improve to the infrastructure or the quality of life...

But ground reality is Mumbai is saturated and is barely managing to keep afloat...sooner ppl realise this the better it is for everyone....
And ppl feeling aggrieved when their way of life is threatened is a universal feeling....

 

[superczar]

Friends, I visit TE everyday and read the threads(not all, very few of my interest.) I seldom participate though, mainly because I don't think I am very strong technically and also because I am quite busy.

I must say that I was shocked by what Raj Thakray did and do not condole what he did or said but I was also shocked to see some of the comments made in this forum.

Now, I am not going to say anything, but I am just going to ask you a few questions. Can you please answer them?

1) Let's say that your name is Abhijeet ...balh---blah-blah

rant....rant...rant...

It's OK when Sheela Dixit says that immigrant workers are causing a lot of problems in Delhi, it's OK when Karnataka CM says that he is thinking about giving a reservation quota in IT sector for Kannadigas in Karnataka, it's OK when WB guys harass the national cricket team just because Ganguly was omitted, it's OK when UP guys pelt stones at a bus from Goa because they looked like foreign tourists, it's OK when Hindi speaking people are shot dead in Assam but when Maharastrians say that immigrants are really taking a toll now and their influx should be stopped, you have a problem!

Now everyone, plz Take a look at the bold part...and repeat after me...Thank GOD for small mercies!

 

[blr_p]

The problem is not the name change but the reason for which which it was done, to cater to narrow regional feelings by the Shiv Sena.

Strangely to our founding fathers and thousands of freedom fighters who took over the country from the British this wasn't something that occurred to them, never discussed, never an issue. They were happy with the names, but a new generation of 'patriots' whose only claim to fame is corruption and ceaseless personal enrichment exploiting regionalism for narrow personal gain comes naturally, an inevitable corollary of their incompetence and its sad that people fall for this.

Good points these but in addition to the 'why' i also question the timing..

..so many yrs after independance.

Was the new found confidence after liberalisation in the early 90s, anything to do with it ?

..all of a sudden the naming issue gets more traction than formerly and ppl think the time has come to 'regularise' things ..course we in Karnataka take another 10yrs to get onboard.

..personally i've always preferred version originale, in comparison to translations..if we are talking movies, that is :rofl:

..but bengalooru just sounds *CACK* in comparison to Bangalore, so only in this case do i make an exception.

There is also the little point that if it were not for the Brits choosing this formerly unknown place, as their base, the state capital might very well have been Mysore ie they put it on the map.

 

[Wraith]

Thats ur sad mentality....its like thinking a 12 yr old girl giving suggestive signals....i hope u get the point. Autos/taxis r the same everywhere. Come to chennai where all r driven by mainly natives & u will know what u have come across!

The city already has more taxis than it requires but you'd still find it difficult to go places easily....

What do u mean by that.....in any country its like that. I hope ppl to be happy seeing best medicare facilities in their city & instead of that putting in a sad way ppl frm other states come. If u have brains this is beneficial for the city, the state coffers.

I dont know how you think the states or citys coffers r filling....Govt hosp provide most of the basic care n medices for Rs 10 per patient for every 15 days...
There are 100 patients admitted in a ward designed to accomodate around 50 patients...

There is lack of drinking water and basic sanitation in most areas of the city....

Who is the ultimate suffer of all this?? Its everyone staying in the city....locals or non locals doesnt matter...

These ppl are exploited by politicians as their vote banks....

All i am saying sooner the ppl realise Mumbai isnt the city of dreams the better it is going to be for everyone...

Instead of dng this Raj why doesn't Raj do something against the govt & demand for proper facilities etc. I cant even a see a strong word against them from u....waah saar
Fact accepted by u , but none of us ...u cant barge in word for other ppl to be accepted

incase you didnt read my post completely this is what i said in post #54
Raj Thackeray used the wrong means...there is no justification for hitting ppl or burning cars etc...