[PSA] BEWARE : STOLEN Goods selling on facebook and watsapp groups.

I don't give a rat's ass about losses to Amazon, TBH. I only care for what the consumer has to go through.

The end user suffers because of scumbag scamming thieves like Jora. They dilute the excitement of recieving a spanking new product, and we end up fighting to get our money back. These f*cknuts, in the meanwhile, are flipping the goods WE paid for.

guest_999 said:

They do care just not in the right way. Instead of focusing their efforts on stopping such scams & reduce their losses they instead focus on reducing their expenses on customer support & rejecting even genuine return/replacement requests.

Click to expand...

this reminds of an incident.. long long back, when one team uploaded work in Client-B's FTP, which was meant for Client-A... and manager did a blanket ban on FTP in the office.
very soon the company is hit by legal notice by Client A, for breaching NDA. and another few notices/email with bold and curse words with red, as why they have,t seen any deliveries for last 1 month

The manager was fired sooner.
It would be interesting to see when this time in coming for amazon India country head,

guest_999 said:

I agree with fake products issue on amazon but 90% figure is just exaggeration. I would say it is around 20-30% depending on delivery areas & product types.

Click to expand...

for me its 100% fake in last 1 year, even they send me used tube light with one end completely burnt off.

n1r0 said:

Please don't feel the need to feel sorry for a trillion dollar company.

Especially when it is trying to buy up all homes in US, has space travel technology and overworks its employees.

The reduced discounts + increasing Prime subscription + ads/rentals within Prime is nothing but corporate greed.

Click to expand...

Nobody is feeling sorry for amazon here but only mentioning facts & reasons for amazon shopping experience going down for many. Also, two wrongs don't make a right, corporate greed is not good but neither is becoming a fraud/scammer to loot that corporate.

Ramadhir Singh said:

for me its 100% fake in last 1 year, even they send me used tube light with one end completely burnt off.

Click to expand...

Mention your area pincode, will make a note of it to suggest not order anything from amazon if someone I know is/will be there.

altair21 said:

a friend of mine owns a major Electronics brand agency, this is the reason why he doesnt sell on Amazon, customer returns product with any bullshit reason, and he has to take it back, no questions asked, and guess whether he's able to sell it again for MRP? ding ding ding! He cant, so he's forced to give major discounts on the product and sell it to third party distributors.

Click to expand...

Many products on Amazon are replacement only. Returnable is rare to see and never applies to electronics.

So where is the question of returns for any BS reason? Prior to 2015 maybe.

altair21 said:

a bigger drop in the bucket? let me reassure you, if these actions were really getting anywhere close to the real bottom line of Amazon, they would have taken action way sooner, is it scummy? yes, does it result in losses for an org like Amazon? yes, do they account for it while calculating their financial sheets/business plan? **** yes

Click to expand...

If the fraud is a tiny fraction of legit sales then its more trouble than it's worth. Nothing scummy here if the cost to go after with no prospect of a tangible return.

blr_p said:

Many products on Amazon are replacement only. Returnable is rare to see and never applies to electronics.

Click to expand...

And where do you think the replacement comes from, basically the seller end up selling one unit & get back one opened unit which he then has to sell at a loss as open box.

blr_p said:

If the fraud is a tiny fraction of legit sales then its more trouble than it's worth. Nothing scummy here if the cost to go after with no prospect of a tangible return.

Click to expand...

Problem is that because of the large population here the small scammers*10000 makes it almost impossible for amazon to stop frauds because going after all of them is not possible & going after one/few of them is not worth it as per laws here.

guest_999 said:

And where do you think the replacement comes from, basically the seller end up selling one unit & get back one opened unit which he then has to sell at a loss as open box.

Click to expand...

A BS reason won't work for replacement. If the seller is dealing in damaged goods then this is the result. Otherwise its sellers discretion.

This applies more in countries where Amazon operates with a no questions asked returns policy than India.

guest_999 said:

Problem is that because of the large population here the small scammers*10000 makes it almost impossible for amazon to stop frauds because going after all of them is not possible & going after one/few of them is not worth it as per laws here.

Click to expand...

This happens in other countries too. Why do you think fraud in India is higher?

I remember back in 2016, amazon kicked out a quarter a million customers because they were posting fake reviews.

guest_999 said:

Also, two wrongs don't make a right, corporate greed is not good but neither is becoming a fraud/scammer to loot that corporate.

Click to expand...

So 3 wrongs make everything fine and dandy? Why are you and (Amazon) assuming EVERYONE is a scammer?

I'm just a guy who wants the product I paid for, without getting entangled in their internal problems.

Scammers exist everywhere: it is the price of doing business. Treating all customers like criminals is a quick way to earn a bad name.

Let's not forget Az itself tried to scam me by sending a returned+resealed product when I ordered a brand new product. Then there was the case where they "photoshopped" the missing serial no. on the old invoice instead of raising a proper one. How do you justify that?

blr_p said:

A BS reason won't work for replacement. If the seller is dealing in damaged goods then this is the result. Otherwise its sellers discretion.

Click to expand...

I was mainly talking about amazon own sellers, 3rd party sellers have become smarter now video recording entire packaging process showing product was brand new sealed pack when packaged & given to amazon so any issue can be perfectly handled by the brand service centre. Of course amazon own sellers like appario/clicktech won't be doing this because of operational/logistical constraints due to their scale of operation.

blr_p said:

This happens in other countries too. Why do you think fraud in India is higher?

Click to expand...

I already mentioned it. 1% of ecomm platform users doing fraud in UK is not the same as 1% of ecomm users doing fraud in India because of its population. Only comparison possible is with China but then because of CCP rules/fear scammers there scam ppl mainly outside of China.

n1r0 said:

So 3 wrongs make everything fine and dandy? Why are you and (Amazon) assuming EVERYONE is a scammer?

Click to expand...

Since when did saying around 10-20% of loss is attributable to scammers translates to everyone is a scammer?

n1r0 said:

I'm just a guy who wants the product I paid for, without getting entangled in their internal problems.

Click to expand...

That's like saying I just want a smooth travel experience on roads with no potholes & traffic jams without getting entangled with politics/voting as I am paying all my taxes, that's not how real world works. If amazon has internal problems then customer too will have issues sooner or later.

n1r0 said:

Scammers exist everywhere: it is the price of doing business. Treating all customers like criminals is a quick way to earn a bad name.

Click to expand...

Amazon is not treating all customers like criminals, it has practically delegated that responsibility to its AI fraud detection system running on faulty algos which is not very good at differentiating between genuine returns & frauds.

n1r0 said:

Let's not forget Az itself tried to scam me by sending a returned+resealed product when I ordered a brand new product. Then there was the case where they "photoshopped" the missing serial no. on the old invoice instead of raising a proper one. How do you justify that?

Click to expand...

What was the product? Only time I have received what seemingly looked like a "returned+resealed" product is when it was some low priced product with no fancy hologram stickers/seal stickers & basically just a flap so anybody could possible open the box take out the product & then put it back inside after 5 min of usage without leaving any trace of product being used (assuming no stains on fingers while handling). As for the invoice, once a proper gst invoice is raised in the system it cannot be "reissued" with any modifications without canceling the initial order & regenerating it with modified details for new order of same product. What amazon did was basically what ppl would suggest you to do if you had bought the same product from flipkart last year because at that time in such cases fk system wouldn't even allow generating & sending photoshopped invoice though now it seems they have also adopted this same policy as per some comments here.

guest_999 said:

I already mentioned it. 1% of ecomm platform users doing fraud in UK is not the same as 1% of ecomm users doing fraud in India because of its population.

Click to expand...

Provided you agree the same 1% is doing so in India. Then mathematically the two are the same

If its more than 1%, in India then no.

guest_999 said:

Only comparison possible is with China but then because of CCP rules/fear scammers there scam ppl mainly outside of China.

Click to expand...

Enforcement is through Amazon. Blacklisting sellers or banning customers. Compare us with UK or US. Should be similar company policy worldwide to the extent possible.

China is different and doesn't have an amazon.

blr_p said:

If its more than 1%, in India then no.

Click to expand...

1% was a very conservative figure. You can guess by the no. of international scams Indians are involved in running fake call centres & whatnot. This is just another side effect of low employment opportunities in a country where superficially everything is booming incl stock mkt & macroeconomic indices.

blr_p said:

Enforcement is through Amazon. Blacklisting sellers or banning customers.

Click to expand...

Banning customer accs is what amazon is doing in India with not much success as evident from no lack of easily available mobile nos. used in various online frauds all over the country. India is probably the only country in the world with such population & economy where getting mobile phone no. for doing frauds is so easy.

blr_p said:

China is different and doesn't have an amazon.

Click to expand...

China has its own amazon in the form of aliexpress/alibaba etc. & as many potential opportunities for scammers if not for CCP iron hand rule. Chinese scammers would rather collaborate with Indian scammers on lending & betting apps to scam people in India.

guest_999 said:

1% was a very conservative figure. You can guess by the no. of international scams Indians are involved in running fake call centres & whatnot. This is just another side effect of low employment opportunities in a country where superficially everything is booming incl stock mkt & macroeconomic indices.

Click to expand...

Didn't the US rank top for software piracy. I would not put anything past them. Their laws are strict because they've been at it longer. Pretty much the same situation in the US with more inflation. Macro like stock market & real estate all doing well with high prices and out of reach for many.

guest_999 said:

Banning customer accs is what amazon is doing in India with not much success as evident from no lack of easily available mobile nos. used in various online frauds all over the country. India is probably the only country in the world with such population & economy where getting mobile phone no. for doing frauds is so easy.

Click to expand...

India is a tough country to get a mobile number without accompanying paperwork thanks to terrorism. Not so easy to get burner mobile numbers here as it is over there. So same story there too.

guest_999 said:

China has its own amazon in the form of aliexpress/alibaba etc. & as many potential opportunities for scammers if not for CCP iron hand rule. Chinese scammers would rather collaborate with Indian scammers on lending & betting apps to scam people in India.

Click to expand...

I don't doubt they have their share of fraudsters too. It's a global problem but you seem to think we're top of the list here

blr_p said:

India is a tough country to get a mobile number without accompanying paperwork thanks to terrorism. Not so easy to get burner mobile numbers here as it is over there. So same story there too.

Click to expand...

I am not saying getting sim for terrorism in India is easy, I am saying getting sim for fraud in India is very easy. Both are completely different things. Just like how it is very easy for fraudsters to get bank accs opened with proper aadhaar verification which are used for siphoning off money in online scams. You don't seem to be familiar enough with how the interior parts of North India work in such matters.

blr_p said:

It's a global problem but you seem to think we're top of the list here

Click to expand...

In a way.

Among the top ranking countries, while some may "specialise" in cybercrime types with middling technical complexity - such as those involved in data and identity theft - others may "specialise" in both high-tech and low-tech crimes, they said.
India was found to "specialise" in scams. Further, while Romania and the US were found to "specialise" in both high-tech and low-tech crimes, India was found to be a "balanced hub", "specialising" in mid-tech crimes.

Click to expand...

People who work to expose scammers are called scam baiters, and Browning told news site ThePrint.in that over 95 per cent of global scam calls originate from India. Citing his database of IP addresses, he said they originate specifically from in and around Kolkata and New Delhi.

Click to expand...

I don't know about stolen goods. But Flipkart is selling returned/refurbished items it seems. My friend bought an iPhone 15 and there is a scuff on the body. It's impossible to have come from the factory, unless made in India products are like this. So what's the assumption here? Returned item? Then my brother's laptop has several marks on the lid along with many fingerprints. There was no protective sheet between keyboard and display etc. now i don't even know for to check a laptop properly to ensure it's working properly, hardware wise I mean.
FK is knee deep in filthy business.

guest_999 said:

I am not saying getting sim for terrorism in India is easy, I am saying getting sim for fraud in India is very easy. Both are completely different things. Just like how it is very easy for fraudsters to get bank accs opened with proper aadhaar verification which are used for siphoning off money in online scams. You don't seem to be familiar enough with how the interior parts of North India work in such matters.

Click to expand...

Then there is no difference or anything remarkable here for India as with other countries as its even easier to get a sim there as its considered some sort of human right

guest_999 said:

In a way.

India ranks number 10 in cybercrime, study finds - ET CISO

The major categories that the researchers identified were - technical products and services such as malware and compromising systems; attacks and extortion including ransomware; data and identity theft including hacking, compromising accounts and credit cards; scams such as advance fee fraud...

ciso.economictimes.indiatimes.com

When tech support is a scam: How India’s call-centre scams became big money

How did the tech support scam industry get so big in India, and how do scammers get victims to fall for their ploy? The programme Undercover Asia finds out from a veteran.

www.channelnewsasia.com

Click to expand...

How do they rank the countries? What is the criteria

Other than China there are eight countries ahead with much smaller populations than India.

Just now read though this. Any updates on this from Amazon or others.
Amazon, Flipkart on one side, Refurb Market like olx, Facebook Markets on other side and us customers stuck in middle.
Good Job by members involved here and hope justice is swift.

Amazon India better straighten your staffs and policies else everyone will play with you, us customers losing faith in you.

No amount of mouth watering offers, discounts will entice janta public, because we now come to believe that we customers won't receive the products that we have ordered and we have run behind you begging you to make it right.

sauravghosh said:

I don't know about stolen goods. But Flipkart is selling returned/refurbished items it seems. My friend bought an iPhone 15 and there is a scuff on the body. It's impossible to have come from the factory, unless made in India products are like this. So what's the assumption here? Returned item? Then my brother's laptop has several marks on the lid along with many fingerprints. There was no protective sheet between keyboard and display etc. now i don't even know for to check a laptop properly to ensure it's working properly, hardware wise I mean.
FK is knee deep in filthy business.

Click to expand...

An iPad I purchased last year had a similar dent on one of the corners. It won't be visible unless you're loking for it. The paint wasn't scuffed or anything, just a small crater, no more than 1mm in diameter. And this was purchased completely sealed in the US, in person at a Best Buy store. So at this point, I think it's Apple problem rather than Flipkart.

blr_p said:

Many products on Amazon are replacement only. Returnable is rare to see and never applies to electronics.

So where is the question of returns for any BS reason? Prior to 2015 maybe.

Click to expand...

nope, this is relatively recent from 2021-ish.

blr_p said:

If the fraud is a tiny fraction of legit sales then its more trouble than it's worth. Nothing scummy here if the cost to go after with no prospect of a tangible return.

Click to expand...

stealing is stealing :shrug: no matter the cost, also in the end its us consumers who get ****ed by draconian rules as a consequence.

sauravghosh said:

I don't know about stolen goods. But Flipkart is selling returned/refurbished items it seems. My friend bought an iPhone 15 and there is a scuff on the body. It's impossible to have come from the factory, unless made in India products are like this. So what's the assumption here? Returned item? Then my brother's laptop has several marks on the lid along with many fingerprints. There was no protective sheet between keyboard and display etc. now i don't even know for to check a laptop properly to ensure it's working properly, hardware wise I mean.
FK is knee deep in filthy business.

Click to expand...

did flipkart give anything in comp? or since this was an open-box delivery, they refused to do anything?

altair21 said:

did flipkart give anything in comp? or since this was an open-box delivery, they refused to do anything?

Click to expand...

No. Because receiver of both items didn't bother as they accepted them in their as-is condition.

I have even came across such person and device(mobile) of very high end. They were swapped from Flipkart. Suprisingly those were newly manufactured devices. I wonder it must be an insider job only. New stolen stock out in market for sale.