Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.
pauldmps said:
HK might be in China but it is an autonomous region with a parallel govt. which is elected by the people from multiple parties.
Once again is everything under this obudsman in HK ?
I'm aware of the two systems there.
The question is valid, because if they are as free as we are then a system from there might have good reasons but if they are less free then you're imposing an idea from a more restrictive regime over us and claiming it as a positive.
I'm not willing to sarifice freedom for the sake of corruption nor liberty for security.
pauldmps said:
On other note, if Democracy means Freedom to practice Corruption, I'd rather choose dictatorship over it.
And how would Hazare fare in a dictatorship ? Would he be allowed to protest ? or would he get locked up on day 1 and forgotten. Would you ever hear about him on tv or in the papers ? only abroad like with Ai wei wei
Irony of course is the system Hazare has no respect for actually allows him to thrive. Thats what freedom is. And one expects him to play by the rules.
Deomcracy is messy, but dictatorships are even more corrupt. India's black money abroad is conservatively estimated at $500 billion+, know what it is for China ? $2 trillion+, a good chunk of that having been added in the last decade.
China is #1 in the world for unaccounted capital, who comes next ? the oil countries, not so free either
mr.cool
I don't oppose the spirit of the movment that is to effectively deal with corruption. Everybody would love to tackle it
I oppose some of the methods used. I find them risky & reckless. You have some support today but what about tomorrow.
Where was the coercion with the RTI movement. It started of small, slowly grew, and then laws were passed nationwide after. Started in '93 by '97 TN already had it, then other states followed. Where were the fast to death threats ?
In fact RTI is proof that citizens can get themselves heard and eventually prevail without the need for such drama. The work on JLP started last dec, that is the present version, forget about the older ones. Now we are in aug, and are told, or is that ordered, that the bill has to pass by month end. Does this sound reasonable to you ? go through the transcript i posted earlier.
Dissent is not allowed, the slightest hint of it and then you are conisdered the opponent. What kind of a mindset is this ? If you can't take constructive criticism then how can you improve. My way or the highway does not result in the best solution, push too hard and we may get no solution. Don't fall for this with me or against me trap. Think about that.
Also its harming our country in many ways. You think the terrorists would have been able to get GENUINE Driving licenses if there were honest RTO offices? Do you think smuggling would be easy if we had honest customs officials? Do you think land grabbing would be possible if Honest officers were there? Answer these and you will know why we need corruption free INDIA.
Agree with everything you said here. So its important to get something that is first feasible & effective. otherwise the exercise is pointless.
So be open, listen to ideas, incorporate them, modify your stance and keep on pushing
You guys might be reasonable but i don't see that in the actions of the hazare camp as yet. In fact, I would say there is no change at all.
That tells me they dont think they have the desired numbers or support as yet and are fighting to get it. They might soften their stance after. Could this be their strategy ?
I guess one could look at it in this way. We will see.
--- Updated Post - Automerged ---
I will reorder your post, if i may.
mrcool63 said:
That is INDIAN bueracracy!!!
THIS is the problem.
mrcool63 said:
All these things are happening because of corruption.
No, corruption is the symptom of the problem.
LP is attempts to treat the symptom whilst ignoring the problem. How effective will it be even if you get the perfect bill ?
It might make some improvements but they won't be substantial. its a band-aid of sorts. create another org to watch others, who watch still others in turn from previous eras.
I suggested earlier that the solution lay in simplifying bureaucracy. Cut the red tape. Now how do we do that ?
Do that and your corruption will decrease significantly across the board because it would be difficult to hide as tranpareancy has been increased.
simplify leads to more transparency leads to less corruption
