Anna Hazare's fast against corruption

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Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^^that is pessimism to the limit man.. do u honestly want corruption in india? Be strong government?? what kind of statement is that!!! If you dont understand what he is doing it for you better shut up.. he had the courage to stand up... do it along with him or shut up!!:@

A 70 year old man is doing what india could not in 64 years.. support him or literally shut it.. he is protesting and it is a bloody joke to some here... what an irony. our people only turn out to be the biggest back stabbers!!:@
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

kippu said:
if the government bends over back to pass the bill with his demands , i will absolutely lose respect for them .. be strong government
Honestly dood.. After reading your posts..this thread seems to be a cricket thread, where:-

Govt seems to be the BCCI,
Anna happens to be Tendulkar,
And U r the new Darth Coder of this thread.

Height of trashy stuff. :-[
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

avi said:
There is another floating in youtube which shows BJP is supporting anna - Anna Hazare - His Ideology - YouTube

and this says he was a crazy guy ! - Anna Hazare - Know more about him - YouTube

how much is TRUE ? or Congress is behind all these ?
Well, avi as i said before if these guys push too hard there will cause a reaction. That is what these videos are.

Now you will get counter-claims again with some guy who will say the exact opposite. These videos interfere with the thinking process they are designed to do that.

In a confrontation like this, the first casualty is the truth.

But you don't need testimonials to understand the actions. Watch the actions closely.

Those speak, no, scream much louder than words.

kippu said:
if the government bends over back to pass the bill with his demands , i will absolutely lose respect for them .. be strong government
I have my doubts that they will. They have tried their best to look good. as far as i can read its hazare's side that seems unreasonable.

So they passed the first test, now the second test is coming up month end.

Should be enough to convince the silent majority.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

kippu said:
if the government bends over back to pass the bill with his demands , i will absolutely lose respect for them .. be strong government

The govt is already behaving like pussies and has turned and bent around for Hazare and his group to do the honours. Don't expect them (govt) to be strong. Hazare has said he wants only his Bill passed, so it will be. Hazare is God. Hazare is going to eliminate corruption from this country. Just wait and watch. 3 weeks is all its going to take. I am going to file a case against every one of those 20 odd corrupt folks I encountered. You start preparing your list too. The Lokpal will fire all these corrupt officials. There will be no bribery anymore.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

mrcool63 said:
^^that is pessimism to the limit man.. do u honestly want corruption in india? Be strong government?? what kind of statement is that!!! If you dont understand what he is doing it for you better shut up.. he had the courage to stand up... do it along with him or shut up!!:@
No respect for freedom fo speech nor of dissent. This is what the pessimism is about. And we are not threatening the govt :)

mrcool63 said:
A 70 year old man is doing what india could not in 64 years.. support him or literally shut it.. he is protesting and it is a bloody joke to some here... what an irony. our people only turn out to be the biggest back stabbers!!:@
What is he doing ? tell me

I've heard many versions, maybe you can add yet another one :)

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agantuk said:
The govt is already behaving like pussies and has turned and bent around for Hazare and his group to do the honours. Don't expect them (govt) to be strong. Hazare has said he wants only his Bill passed, so it will be. Hazare is God. Hazare is going to eliminate corruption from this country. Just wait and watch. 3 weeks is all its going to take. I am going to file a case against every one of those 20 odd corrupt folks I encountered. You start preparing your list too. The Lokpal will fire all these corrupt officials. There will be no bribery anymore.
first bolded bit is the objective.

second one is just aspirations. who can predict the future ? so far i found, only 6pack :ohyeah:
Govt did the same thing with the telangana fellows as well, they calmed down, but have they got their state yet, no. So govt bought time.

Govt wil do the same thing here. I mean these ppl know how things work, power, managing crowds etc.

You bet on the underdog, i will bet on the incumbent.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^ I was being sarcastic, just in case it didn't come across clearly :D
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

haha, i was wondering but now i get your intent.

If somethig gets repeated enough times by enough ppl it becomes a fact. it will happen etc. push further and there is nothing behind that statement.

Can't say i've had this much fun in a while, we live in exciting times :)
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

guys getting jumpy at my statements , do yourself a favour go read up on the bill by other learned people and see if anyone say jan lok pal is a very nice sort of bill ..,
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

pauldmps said:
@ blr_p

This time, the UPA has a clear majority in Lok Sabha without the need of external support. You know how Congress played a dirty game last time when when the left parties withdrew support from the Govt. Parties like SP, BSP & JMM will come running like dogs (as Nitin Gadkari said, rightfully) when cash is thrown at them. And you never know, some MLA's from those parties (Amar Singh) might actually act as touts & middlemen to get some of opposition in their side.
ok

pauldmps said:
And about the effectiveness of Lokpal - It is based on the Ombudsman Law in HongKong which has been highly successful. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
'based on' but is everything under this ombudsman in HK, also is HK a democracy ?
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

blr_p said:
'based on' but is everything under this ombudsman in HK, also is HK a democracy ?

I seriously doubt your IQ to be participating in such a serious discussion.

HK might be in China but it is an autonomous region with a parallel govt. which is elected by the people from multiple parties.

From Wikipedia:

Under the principle of "one country, two systems", Hong Kong has a different political system from mainland China.[22] Hong Kong's independent judiciary functions under the common law framework.[23][24] The Basic Law of Hong Kong, its constitutional document, which stipulates that Hong Kong shall have a "high degree of autonomy" in all matters except foreign relations and military defence, governs its political system.[25][26] Although it has a burgeoning multi-party system, a small-circle electorate controls half of its legislature. An 800-person Election Committee selects the Chief Executive of Hong Kong, the head of government.

On other note, if Democracy means Freedom to practice Corruption, I'd rather choose dictatorship over it.

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kippu said:
if the government bends over back to pass the bill with his demands , i will absolutely lose respect for them .. be strong government

I guess you still have faith in the current UPA govt, most of us have lost that already. In case the govt. bends, then you'll lost your faith too & then we'll be on the same side, right ?
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

blr_p said:
No respect for freedom of speech nor of dissent. This is what the pessimism is about. And we are not threatening the govt :)

What is he doing ? tell me

I've heard many versions, maybe you can add yet another one :)



I respect freedom of speech man, but honestly tell me where his agenda is wrong.. to bring to justice corrupt officials? or to make the prime minister and judiciary also part of lokpal? or u name others.. Havent you got sick of paying every tom dick and harry to get things done? I only resent the fact that even with a genuine endeavour people will try to find some sort of mistake with it. It is that attitude which kept us under the british for 200 years..

WHEN YOU LIKE YOURSELF DESPITE YOUR INFINITE FAULTS WHY HATE OTHERS AT THE GLIMPSE OF A FEW FAULTS!! Swami Vivekanada

Sitting in front of your computer and lambasting something that has taken 64 years in the making is very easy... try doing it outside then you will understand..

Next time the BSNL lineman asks you for money to repair your line or the RTO officer asks you money to renew your license dont fret and fume and curse them because you chose not to help people trying to root it out:)

Also its harming our country in many ways. You think the terrorists would have been able to get GENUINE Driving licenses if there were honest RTO offices? Do you think smuggling would be easy if we had honest customs officials? Do you think land grabbing would be possible if Honest officers were there? Answer these and you will know why we need corruption free INDIA.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

blr_p said:
but i told you he hasn't made a u-turn.
That's what he wants people to think. He talks his talk but when the real moment comes, he flips. Take his stand on the current anna campaign which has forced him to come out openly.
blr_p said:
If he wasn't excited about this bill last year then why will he care now. He's been bringing out a lot of intelligent critiques about the weakness of this bill into a form that one can understand.
Either he's smart or he's playing blind. In the real world, the judiciary would have played the part of the lokpal. But since they've sold out, the current outcome had become an unsurprising possibility.

It's not his ignorance, it's his allegiance.

blr_p said:
I think becoming news anchor is a bad move.
Karan had his time and his audience which lasted long and good. He's mainstream material now.

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pauldmps said:
On other note, if Democracy means Freedom to practice Corruption, I'd rather choose dictatorship over it.
Applaud!

This is what you call a REAL choice. No allegiances or ideologies to corrupt your morals. It's simply about what's good and what's bad.

For a country made up of a corrupt and dysfunctional democracy, it's amazing to see the few many on this board come out in it's favour.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

pauldmps said:
On other note, if Democracy means Freedom to practice Corruption, I'd rather choose dictatorship over it.

I think you are really over-rating corruption plus if things are so bad in a country where citizens still have a voice then think of how bad it will be in a dictatorship? If the ruler is selfless and able to empathise with all of the citizens then I'm sure a dictatorship is a better case but since that is impossible, democracy is always the better option.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

chiron said:
I think you are really over-rating corruption plus if things are so bad in a country where citizens still have a voice then think of how bad it will be in a dictatorship? If the ruler is selfless and able to empathise with all of the citizens then I'm sure a dictatorship is a better case but since that is impossible, democracy is always the better option.

Read this

Also its harming our country in many ways. You think the terrorists would have been able to get GENUINE Driving licenses if there were honest RTO offices? Do you think smuggling would be easy if we had honest customs officials? Do you think land grabbing would be possible if Honest officers were there? Answer these and you will know why we need corruption free INDIA.

Its harming our country more than its doing good. Last year 50,000 quintals of dal rotted because the government did not have storage place ... The people who paid got space, others just put it outside. why not release the harvest is another question? when the prices are already sky high wouldn't extra grains reduce it? This was surplus grains in the storage not the required quantity. The traders paid off the APMC yard officials so that they would not release the grains to promote price increase.. another example is kerosene.. the government reduced the maximum ration from 10 litres to 6 litres. their reason was supply defeceit... do u know where the additional kerosene went? it was mixed with petrol or sold in black, all these from government stock. If it had rightfully reached the public would they have had to decrease the ration? All these things are happening because of corruption. i can quote numerous such examples and still some would not be convinced!!! That is INDIAN bueracracy!!!:@

You want a shining example of how corruption is killing india... See reservations!!! Those that actually need them dont have enough money to pay the bribes. They are stuck rotting while the elite enjoy theses categories when they can survive without it...
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

chiron said:
I think you are really over-rating corruption plus if things are so bad in a country where citizens still have a voice then think of how bad it will be in a dictatorship? If the ruler is selfless and able to empathise with all of the citizens then I'm sure a dictatorship is a better case but since that is impossible, democracy is always the better option.

In dictatorship, the dictator crushes any voice against it. The UPA govt. is doing the same. Do you find much difference ?

And you seriously think that corruption is overrated ?
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

pauldmps said:
In dictatorship, the dictator crushes any voice against it. The UPA govt. is doing the same. Do you find much difference ?

And you seriously think that corruption is overrated ?

In comparison to a dictatorship, yeah. And the UPA govt might be shameless thieves but they aren't murderous tyrants by any stretch.
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

just quoting some bits of an article ,, sounds outrageous but thats apparently what she said

there was Ms Bedi on the dais, waving at the crowds and swaying to their sloganeering. “You don’t need to know what is there in the Jan Lok Pal Bill we have drafted,” she assured the cheering masses, “All you need to know is that we (and she emphasised the ‘we’ with a great degree of emphasis) will get you 101. Do you know what is 101? Let me tell you what is 101. If someone asks you for a bribe, no matter where you are, whether in a city or in a village, you will have to just dial 101 and immediately Jan Lok Pal inspectors will rush to the place with cameras and recorders.” Here she took a pause as the masses went into a frenzy of cheering, assured that a solution to the gargantuan problem of corruption was just three digits away. “And… listen to me… and, if 101 doesn’t do its job, you can dial 102. Other Jan Lok Pal inspectors will rush to your help and take the first lot of inspectors to task,” Ms Bedi was in full flow now, “You will ask me, what if 102 doesn’t work? Don’t worry, you can then dial 103…”

really? hmm, all i can assume we are going to have a lot of new phone numbers and lot of new inspectors

full article here , if you guys can forget the mass hysteria on the news channels and read

The Pioneer :: Home : >> India needs reforms not a super babu
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^ Hmm... but continuing like that if you dial 108, the ambulance arrives :D
 
Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

pauldmps said:
HK might be in China but it is an autonomous region with a parallel govt. which is elected by the people from multiple parties.
Once again is everything under this obudsman in HK ?

I'm aware of the two systems there.

The question is valid, because if they are as free as we are then a system from there might have good reasons but if they are less free then you're imposing an idea from a more restrictive regime over us and claiming it as a positive.

I'm not willing to sarifice freedom for the sake of corruption nor liberty for security.

pauldmps said:
On other note, if Democracy means Freedom to practice Corruption, I'd rather choose dictatorship over it.
And how would Hazare fare in a dictatorship ? Would he be allowed to protest ? or would he get locked up on day 1 and forgotten. Would you ever hear about him on tv or in the papers ? only abroad like with Ai wei wei

Irony of course is the system Hazare has no respect for actually allows him to thrive. Thats what freedom is. And one expects him to play by the rules.

Deomcracy is messy, but dictatorships are even more corrupt. India's black money abroad is conservatively estimated at $500 billion+, know what it is for China ? $2 trillion+, a good chunk of that having been added in the last decade.

China is #1 in the world for unaccounted capital, who comes next ? the oil countries, not so free either ;)

mr.cool

I don't oppose the spirit of the movment that is to effectively deal with corruption. Everybody would love to tackle it

I oppose some of the methods used. I find them risky & reckless. You have some support today but what about tomorrow.

Where was the coercion with the RTI movement. It started of small, slowly grew, and then laws were passed nationwide after. Started in '93 by '97 TN already had it, then other states followed. Where were the fast to death threats ?

In fact RTI is proof that citizens can get themselves heard and eventually prevail without the need for such drama. The work on JLP started last dec, that is the present version, forget about the older ones. Now we are in aug, and are told, or is that ordered, that the bill has to pass by month end. Does this sound reasonable to you ? go through the transcript i posted earlier.

Dissent is not allowed, the slightest hint of it and then you are conisdered the opponent. What kind of a mindset is this ? If you can't take constructive criticism then how can you improve. My way or the highway does not result in the best solution, push too hard and we may get no solution. Don't fall for this with me or against me trap. Think about that.

Also its harming our country in many ways. You think the terrorists would have been able to get GENUINE Driving licenses if there were honest RTO offices? Do you think smuggling would be easy if we had honest customs officials? Do you think land grabbing would be possible if Honest officers were there? Answer these and you will know why we need corruption free INDIA.
Agree with everything you said here. So its important to get something that is first feasible & effective. otherwise the exercise is pointless.

So be open, listen to ideas, incorporate them, modify your stance and keep on pushing :)

You guys might be reasonable but i don't see that in the actions of the hazare camp as yet. In fact, I would say there is no change at all.

That tells me they dont think they have the desired numbers or support as yet and are fighting to get it. They might soften their stance after. Could this be their strategy ?

I guess one could look at it in this way. We will see.

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I will reorder your post, if i may.

mrcool63 said:
That is INDIAN bueracracy!!!:@
THIS is the problem.

mrcool63 said:
All these things are happening because of corruption.
No, corruption is the symptom of the problem.

LP is attempts to treat the symptom whilst ignoring the problem. How effective will it be even if you get the perfect bill ?

It might make some improvements but they won't be substantial. its a band-aid of sorts. create another org to watch others, who watch still others in turn from previous eras.

I suggested earlier that the solution lay in simplifying bureaucracy. Cut the red tape. Now how do we do that ?

Do that and your corruption will decrease significantly across the board because it would be difficult to hide as tranpareancy has been increased.

simplify leads to more transparency leads to less corruption :)
 
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