Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.
broadway said:
In general, karan had almost always been a critic of the govt. Though when things veered too much out of control in the direction of a possible regime change, he chose the govt.
A democracy depends on a healthy mistrust of govt by the citizens. But there has to be a line here somewhere, is govt always in the wrong or do they sometimes have a point. See, i dont think ppl know that, they just use the same tactic, anti-govt.
You've got to look at both sides of the argument. But what has happened here is they pulled the emotional strings and now everybody is thinking ANNA, ANNA, ANNA and nobody has understood what his bill wants to do or what it will mean to them.
broadway said:
There is no doubt that he is probably the best anchor in india but his heart is no longer in the right place.
Probably ? no definitely. I would go so far as to call him a national treasure
I've yet to see him make a wrong step and given i've watched him now for close to a year he hasn't missed a beat once. How the heck does a guy that does 6 shows a week manage that !!
broadway said:
He's getting a little too much air time on CNN-IBN; he is buddies with sardesai after all.
He does 4 shows on cnbc-tv18 vs 2 on cnn-ibn., so where is the question of spending more time ?
broadway said:
The old thapar did what he did in the littlest air time he got. The new thapar can do specials by mixing gossip with facts and stretch it for an extra 2-3 hours. And I'm tired of watching him make u-turns at the last moment.
but i told you he hasn't made a u-turn. If he wasn't excited about this bill last year then why will he care now. He's been bringing out a lot of intelligent critiques about the weakness of this bill into a form that one can understand.
Of course the detractors say its govt propaganda or he is a govt stooge. All this does it make ppl close their eyes & ears and only listen to one true god. So if ppl tell you only to listen to them then what is that. Are they asking you think ? no, there is no thinking. They only want you to follow.
broadway said:
Lok sabha tv cannot pose critical questions as he does but at least they are consistent and neutral(by-far).
Neutral is tricky whenever somebody else is giving you a story. more neutral i would agree. Govt tv is straight facts, very academic.
broadway said:
I think he is on his way to becoming the next celebrity anchor along with goswami, sardesai and barkha dutt.
I think becoming news anchor is a bad move. It would take him away from a niche he dominates and put him in an area with a lot of other competitors. We do not need another Arnab. One is bad enough.
Right now he concentrates on just one topic per show. If he becomes a news anchor then it the show will lose depth and become no different than at least 7 others. Its not a smart move.
Shripad said:
The government has the right to pass laws, but they do not have absolute right to do as they please. Specially not without being questioned by the members of society. Specially when something promotes, or protects corrupt officials. Absolute right means something that cannot be questioned.
Our constitution gives the freedom to ask questions, to protest and be heard. Its given to every member of parliament and to every citizen.
So do it then who is stopping you. What i dont want to hear is how you broke the rules and then blamed the govt for enforcing its writ. If you think a govt has no right to enforce its own rules then you do not give a damn about my rights or anybody elses. So why should i or anybody else trust you at all ?
Because your actions give me reason to suspect your intent. Its pretty damn obvious.
Shripad said:
Yes, in ideal world there is black and white, right and wrong. Not in real modern world. Some of the examples are right in this thread.
This kind of two bit thinking when applied to a system as compex as govt is bound to be too simplistic as to be uselss. And it is useless because you misdiagnosed the problem and then trump what you got as a solution.
Shripad said:
And about this government failing before next election, its not going to happen. Just look at the number game. They have enough seats in parliament to secure this term.
I'm wondering what stops opposition from moving a no confidence motion.
lack of numbers ?
But if ppl are so upset about this govt thanks to the media trumpeting all their failures every day for over a year now, then why are the numbers to overthrow this govt not there or the confidence to do so. I can certainly say the media has blow those scams completely out of proportion to what they really were. That is why hazare was able to get some initial support to start this.
Shripad said:
The draft proposed by civic body addresses 3 main concerns.
1. Encourage people to come forward and speak against corruption and to protect them.
There is already a whistle blowers act called
Public Interest Disclosure and Protection to Persons Making the Disclosures Bill was passed last year
So I agree there is a crying need to support informants. But, JLP goes further, it offers an incentive, 10% of the supposed illegal gains. Now tell me if a person goes ahead with this then the plot will be stopped in time so where is the question of getting anything in the end. Also how do they estimate the total amout beforehand in the first place.
Shripad said:
2. Have an execution arm that can actually punish the guilty party
3. Be independent of government interference.
This is fine but they should not be omnipotent to the point where they dictate to govt on every single thing. That will happen over time.
Shripad said:
@blr_p you talk about lack of vision. But you forget that to make that vision become reality there is a need of a fundamentally strong system in place.
So what is stopping us from building that strong system in the first place ? that is what i want to know.
A system with 100 mving parts will always be more prone to breakdown than one with fewer. So why not simplify. Why not take out all the extra crap layers that got added on one after the other. Power centres. You cant tackle them because they will stonewall you and thwart you because your objective is to cut things out and reduce them in power. Well, this is something that has to be solved sooner or later.
Shripad said:
The Lokpal bill is going to happen. This government has every intent to put their draft in the parliament. And if that is put forward and passed by parliament, it will be nothing shot of disaster.
Spooky language...
so tell me Why ?
Shripad said:
You talk about the civic body's draft being dangerous, have you taken a look at the government's draft?
yes am working through it chapter by chapter and doing a diff.
Shripad said:
It gives no protection to whistleblowers
that act already exists.
Shripad said:
gives no actual power to lokpal to punish any guilty party, covers only list A officers, dismantles all current state level anti corruption agencies, only plans to cover high level of corruption (now what is high?, 10cr? 100cr? 1000cr? ), and most critically it gives right to even complain to 2 peoples (Speaker of lower house and chairman of upper house) both of whom can be directly controlled by ruling party. So nothing can be investigated unless those two people ask Lokpal to investigate. And even if they do, lokpal cannot punish anyone, he just refers the case to court. Now is this simple??
Cant comment on this as have not got that far yet.
I saw they define an 'act of corruption' instead of GOI's equivalent of 'complaint' and JLP's term is a very exhaustive one. Anything that slightly smells of it is considered an 'act of corruption'. well, they will certainly need lots of ppl and will be very busy. how are they going to deliver results in a timebound basis when the scope right at the start is so damn wide.
Shripad said:
This whole thing is an exercise only to protect the corrupt.
Simplify the system and where can they hide.
Shripad said:
You do not have any problem with that, but you have problem with what will be ramifications of the civic body's suggestion which actually proposes something logical. And think this shouldnt be questioned or opposed.!
I have a problem with this
particular mode of addressing the issue. My objections will grow later as i understand more...for now these are the quirks that i see
- breaking rules today in order to be respected tomorrow for adhering to the rules.
- system has problems, adding yet another system to this instead of trying to fix the system in the first place. its a band aid.
- accusing govt of using absolute power but in turn asking for real absolute power by concentrating everything in one body, breaking the basic rule of seperation of powers. In fact flatly throws it out the window like this knowledge does not even exist. Becaue otherwise there will be a disaster.
Sounds like a plot to a bad movie if you ask me, but what can we expect with a 7th std dropout, truck driver who poses under a picture of gandhi at ram lila maidan, why ? are we to subliminally make some connection between the two here. Because it isn't a true comparison at all.
