Anna Hazare's fast against corruption

[quixand]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^^Funny, yes but on a different note it's a shame that somebody like Manmohan Singh with an impeccable record and one of the pioneers of '91 Economic Reforms is being lambasted in every possible way. I feel sorry for the man. I wonder when coalition party system will end, it renders every PM useless. AB Vajpayee and NDA were the same story.

 

[Superbad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

something from my side again

Spoiler

 

[6pack]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^^Funny, yes but on a different note it's a shame that somebody like Manmohan Singh with an impeccable record and one of the pioneers of '91 Economic Reforms is being lambasted in every possible way. I feel sorry for the man. I wonder when coalition party system will end, it renders every PM useless. AB Vajpayee and NDA were the same story.

he or any other pm in power will be blasted. every important thing requires his signature. once he's signed, that means that paper has his approval.

don't tell me he just signs on papers without reading them...

 

[Spacescreamer]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Got this as a forward sometime back -

Spoiler

Why not use imgur ?? The te upload as well as the logo might not be ideal for sharing with others instantly.

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

I don't see anything wrong with any of those things

Of course not and in a system where the goods chase the money that isn't a problem.

But in our country the money chases the goods. Why ?

Because we do not have enough goods to go around. We've never had enough to go around to the point where its become ingrained and therefore normal. They say we have too many ppl.

Is that bad ? not necessarily. We've always had too many ppl. But in the past the amount of ppl that went to school was a fraction of what they are today. If you did not come from the right background, you did not go to school and that was that. So once we decided it was good for everyone to go to school, did we try to cater for it. I don't think so.

If you develop to counter those shortages then where is the question of giving any bribe.

If you did not have to jump through a hundred loops to get govt to do anything why would you need to bribe anyone and still have to face delays. We are told the reason is corruption, something not working ? corruption somebody not doing their job ? corruption

WTH does Anna's village have to build their own school and then bribe teachers to come there. Then he has to figure out how to solve the irrigation problem. Because they did not pay enough taxes. Hey, they were unemployed thats why they got drunk so how can they pay taxes. But it took this guy to develop his village, the state was not interested in helping them out with the incentive that they might actually start to pay taxes after. Why did the state not help them out ? corruption

Why isn't anyone asking these questions ? Why aren't ppl saying could we do this in a simpler way, instead of rallying to appoint yet another watchdog to watch the other watchdogs we appointed. so we end up with a system like this

A<---is watched by---B <-------is watched by---- C <---------is watched by--------D,....etc

If i want A to do what i want then i just bribe the latest watchdog, D. Bingo!

The coders amoingst you must see the wisdom in simplyfying your modules so you can find the bugs easier and not add unncessary dependenceis because then you just entered never never land and your program will be very difficult to maintain.

Well, we are in never never land and we call it India.

I'm done with karan. He used to be happy being who he was with his little audience following. Now he's all over CNN-IBN and speaks like the rest of the anchors too.

Karan has never been impressed with this movement since the start, his first show about it in Oct last year did not give one much to be excited about. As i go through the bills i can't say i disagree.

Irony of your post is that YOU were the one that recommended him here, that was a solid recommend

A very simple solution: Free CBI from the government + a judicial accountability bill + whistleblower's protection bill

Interesting

Decentralised and independent. Not a concentration of all powers in one hand.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

LOL, Why anyone has to question the intention of any individual. Be it banker, student, peon, zaduwala, kachrewala or anyone. Is there anything wrong is protesting against corruption? Does it matter what their personal gain is? Its for betterment of entire society.

Ya, this is the hook to catch the fishies

Nobody should have to give a bribe to get things done. Be it a millionaire or a poor fellow citizen.

Agree, so simplify things instead of complicating them, adding is not simplfying.

Its a creamy layer that usually stays unaffected by corruption.

Given i no longer think the problem is corruption i think its everybody thats affected by a complicated system.

Corruption is a symptom of the problem, do you want to treat symptoms or attack the cause ?

It does not matter why anyone is against corruption. In real life there is Right, wrong and then there is something in the middle. Corruption will absolutely always be in the wrong category.

Ah, so this is a little bit more sophisticated, instead of 2 options now you are giving 3

But you are still avoiding the problem and think you are inventing a solution to fix it. In the tech world they call that, a solution looking for a problem or a white elephant.

I dont need predict what will be the future of this moment or should be able to tell you what it will be.

Yes, big problem with India is vision. Nobody tries to see the future let alone attempting to predict it.

The fact is, I would take anything that is different that current system. If it means there are few tough times ahead, so be it. It does not matter who the messenger is, if its for the right reasons, they will always get public support and even against the government they themselves selected.

or what is known as a faith based argument.

Being an elected government does not give them the absolute right to do whatever they want without facing any opposition from opposite party, NGOs or general public. Its the same constitution that got them elected gives all of us the right to protest against them. If you want to protest against the movement, you are also free to do so.

The govts writ is absolute, you have to play by the rules. Otherwise anybody will be able to take the govt down and it will no longer have any legitimacy.

So stop with the strong arm tactics. But you need to do that to increase your numbers. So its you trying to push your view onto me.

You do have your rights, so stop pretending they do not exist.

Nobody is questioning legitimacy of this government. They are questioning what they are doing for the people and against corruption. This government has absolute zero chance of falling prematurely even with this movement. Unless they take moral responsibility and step down or their own elected officials decide to go against their top brass mentality, there is no chance that any of this will destabilize this government.

Expand on the bolded bit, pls ?

This is exactly what Lokpal bill intends to do.

No, they are going much further

They want CBI anti corruption wing under lokpal and independent of government

That is the problem, they are creating a super weapon.

And want to protect whistleblowers. And that can be effectively achieved only if all three are combined under one agency / department which is free from government interference and inter agency bureaucracy and competition and egos. Unless its all under one roof, it wont be effective.

I'm not so sure about that bolded bit. It gets asserted like its a fact. Show me what the alternatives to that solution are and THEN let me decide which is better. Give me the choice.

 

[Mephistopheles]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Interesting

Decentralised and independent. Not a concentration of all powers in one hand.

Eggjacktly

This is exactly what Lokpal bill intends to do. They want CBI anti corruption wing under lokpal and independent of government. And want to protect whistleblowers. And that can be effectively achieved only if all three are combined under one agency / department which is free from government interference and inter agency bureaucracy and competition and egos. Unless its all under one roof, it wont be effective.

I know that, and that could be one of the problems. If things happen as I suggested, no one institution will have all the powers.

 

[broadway]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Karan has never been impressed with this movement since the start, his first show about it in Oct last year did not give one much to be excited about. As i go through the bills i can't say i disagree.

Irony of your post is that YOU were the one that recommended him here, that was a solid recommend

In general, karan had almost always been a critic of the govt. Though when things veered too much out of control in the direction of a possible regime change, he chose the govt.

There is no doubt that he is probably the best anchor in india but his heart is no longer in the right place. He's getting a little too much air time on CNN-IBN; he is buddies with sardesai after all. The old thapar did what he did in the littlest air time he got. The new thapar can do specials by mixing gossip with facts and stretch it for an extra 2-3 hours. And I'm tired of watching him make u-turns at the last moment. Lok sabha tv cannot pose critical questions as he does but at least they are consistent and neutral(by-far). I think he is on his way to becoming the next celebrity anchor along with goswami, sardesai and barkha dutt.

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

The government has the right to pass laws, but they do not have absolute right to do as they please. Specially not without being questioned by the members of society. Specially when something promotes, or protects corrupt officials. Absolute right means something that cannot be questioned.

Our constitution gives the freedom to ask questions, to protest and be heard. Its given to every member of parliament and to every citizen.

Yes, in ideal world there is black and white, right and wrong. Not in real modern world. Some of the examples are right in this thread.

And about this government failing before next election, its not going to happen. Just look at the number game. They have enough seats in parliament to secure this term.

The draft proposed by civic body addresses 3 main concerns.

1. Encourage people to come forward and speak against corruption and to protect them.

2. Have an execution arm that can actually punish the guilty party

3. Be independent of government interference.

And all the recommendations are done to serve these 3 key issues.

@blr_p you talk about lack of vision. But you forget that to make that vision become reality there is a need of a fundamentally strong system in place.

The Lokpal bill is going to happen. This government has every intent to put their draft in the parliament. And if that is put forward and passed by parliament, it will be nothing shot of disaster.



You talk about the civic body's draft being dangerous, have you taken a look at the government's draft? It gives no protection to whistleblowers, gives no actual power to lokpal to punish any guilty party, covers only list A officers, dismantles all current state level anti corruption agencies, only plans to cover high level of corruption (now what is high?, 10cr? 100cr? 1000cr? ), and most critically it gives right to even complain to 2 peoples (Speaker of lower house and chairman of upper house) both of whom can be directly controlled by ruling party. So nothing can be investigated unless those two people ask Lokpal to investigate. And even if they do, lokpal cannot punish anyone, he just refers the case to court. Now is this simple??

This whole thing is an exercise only to protect the corrupt.

You do not have any problem with that, but you have problem with what will be ramifications of the civic body's suggestion which actually proposes something logical. And think this shouldnt be questioned or opposed.

Nice!

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

In general, karan had almost always been a critic of the govt. Though when things veered too much out of control in the direction of a possible regime change, he chose the govt.

A democracy depends on a healthy mistrust of govt by the citizens. But there has to be a line here somewhere, is govt always in the wrong or do they sometimes have a point. See, i dont think ppl know that, they just use the same tactic, anti-govt.

You've got to look at both sides of the argument. But what has happened here is they pulled the emotional strings and now everybody is thinking ANNA, ANNA, ANNA and nobody has understood what his bill wants to do or what it will mean to them.

There is no doubt that he is probably the best anchor in india but his heart is no longer in the right place.

Probably ? no definitely. I would go so far as to call him a national treasure

I've yet to see him make a wrong step and given i've watched him now for close to a year he hasn't missed a beat once. How the heck does a guy that does 6 shows a week manage that !!

He's getting a little too much air time on CNN-IBN; he is buddies with sardesai after all.

He does 4 shows on cnbc-tv18 vs 2 on cnn-ibn., so where is the question of spending more time ?

The old thapar did what he did in the littlest air time he got. The new thapar can do specials by mixing gossip with facts and stretch it for an extra 2-3 hours. And I'm tired of watching him make u-turns at the last moment.

but i told you he hasn't made a u-turn. If he wasn't excited about this bill last year then why will he care now. He's been bringing out a lot of intelligent critiques about the weakness of this bill into a form that one can understand.

Of course the detractors say its govt propaganda or he is a govt stooge. All this does it make ppl close their eyes & ears and only listen to one true god. So if ppl tell you only to listen to them then what is that. Are they asking you think ? no, there is no thinking. They only want you to follow.

Lok sabha tv cannot pose critical questions as he does but at least they are consistent and neutral(by-far).

Neutral is tricky whenever somebody else is giving you a story. more neutral i would agree. Govt tv is straight facts, very academic.

I think he is on his way to becoming the next celebrity anchor along with goswami, sardesai and barkha dutt.

I think becoming news anchor is a bad move. It would take him away from a niche he dominates and put him in an area with a lot of other competitors. We do not need another Arnab. One is bad enough.

Right now he concentrates on just one topic per show. If he becomes a news anchor then it the show will lose depth and become no different than at least 7 others. Its not a smart move.

The government has the right to pass laws, but they do not have absolute right to do as they please. Specially not without being questioned by the members of society. Specially when something promotes, or protects corrupt officials. Absolute right means something that cannot be questioned.
Our constitution gives the freedom to ask questions, to protest and be heard. Its given to every member of parliament and to every citizen.

So do it then who is stopping you. What i dont want to hear is how you broke the rules and then blamed the govt for enforcing its writ. If you think a govt has no right to enforce its own rules then you do not give a damn about my rights or anybody elses. So why should i or anybody else trust you at all ?

Because your actions give me reason to suspect your intent. Its pretty damn obvious.

Yes, in ideal world there is black and white, right and wrong. Not in real modern world. Some of the examples are right in this thread.

This kind of two bit thinking when applied to a system as compex as govt is bound to be too simplistic as to be uselss. And it is useless because you misdiagnosed the problem and then trump what you got as a solution.

And about this government failing before next election, its not going to happen. Just look at the number game. They have enough seats in parliament to secure this term.

I'm wondering what stops opposition from moving a no confidence motion.

lack of numbers ?

But if ppl are so upset about this govt thanks to the media trumpeting all their failures every day for over a year now, then why are the numbers to overthrow this govt not there or the confidence to do so. I can certainly say the media has blow those scams completely out of proportion to what they really were. That is why hazare was able to get some initial support to start this.

The draft proposed by civic body addresses 3 main concerns.

1. Encourage people to come forward and speak against corruption and to protect them.

There is already a whistle blowers act called Public Interest Disclosure and Protection to Persons Making the Disclosures Bill was passed last year

So I agree there is a crying need to support informants. But, JLP goes further, it offers an incentive, 10% of the supposed illegal gains. Now tell me if a person goes ahead with this then the plot will be stopped in time so where is the question of getting anything in the end. Also how do they estimate the total amout beforehand in the first place.

2. Have an execution arm that can actually punish the guilty party

3. Be independent of government interference.

This is fine but they should not be omnipotent to the point where they dictate to govt on every single thing. That will happen over time.

@blr_p you talk about lack of vision. But you forget that to make that vision become reality there is a need of a fundamentally strong system in place.

So what is stopping us from building that strong system in the first place ? that is what i want to know.

A system with 100 mving parts will always be more prone to breakdown than one with fewer. So why not simplify. Why not take out all the extra crap layers that got added on one after the other. Power centres. You cant tackle them because they will stonewall you and thwart you because your objective is to cut things out and reduce them in power. Well, this is something that has to be solved sooner or later.

The Lokpal bill is going to happen. This government has every intent to put their draft in the parliament. And if that is put forward and passed by parliament, it will be nothing shot of disaster.

Spooky language...

so tell me Why ?

You talk about the civic body's draft being dangerous, have you taken a look at the government's draft?

yes am working through it chapter by chapter and doing a diff.

It gives no protection to whistleblowers

that act already exists.

gives no actual power to lokpal to punish any guilty party, covers only list A officers, dismantles all current state level anti corruption agencies, only plans to cover high level of corruption (now what is high?, 10cr? 100cr? 1000cr? ), and most critically it gives right to even complain to 2 peoples (Speaker of lower house and chairman of upper house) both of whom can be directly controlled by ruling party. So nothing can be investigated unless those two people ask Lokpal to investigate. And even if they do, lokpal cannot punish anyone, he just refers the case to court. Now is this simple??

Cant comment on this as have not got that far yet.

I saw they define an 'act of corruption' instead of GOI's equivalent of 'complaint' and JLP's term is a very exhaustive one. Anything that slightly smells of it is considered an 'act of corruption'. well, they will certainly need lots of ppl and will be very busy. how are they going to deliver results in a timebound basis when the scope right at the start is so damn wide.

This whole thing is an exercise only to protect the corrupt.

Simplify the system and where can they hide.

You do not have any problem with that, but you have problem with what will be ramifications of the civic body's suggestion which actually proposes something logical. And think this shouldnt be questioned or opposed.!

I have a problem with this particular mode of addressing the issue. My objections will grow later as i understand more...for now these are the quirks that i see

- breaking rules today in order to be respected tomorrow for adhering to the rules.
- system has problems, adding yet another system to this instead of trying to fix the system in the first place. its a band aid.
- accusing govt of using absolute power but in turn asking for real absolute power by concentrating everything in one body, breaking the basic rule of seperation of powers. In fact flatly throws it out the window like this knowledge does not even exist. Becaue otherwise there will be a disaster.

Sounds like a plot to a bad movie if you ask me, but what can we expect with a 7th std dropout, truck driver who poses under a picture of gandhi at ram lila maidan, why ? are we to subliminally make some connection between the two here. Because it isn't a true comparison at all.

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

^^ you admit yourself you have not gone into details of this topic and still continue to nitpick on what facts are being posted here. First go and read about it and then try to dismiss/oppose something.

And as far as PIDP goes, read this : http://indialawyers.wordpress.com/2...-of-persons-making-the-disclosures-bill-2010/

That act leaves whistleblower very venerable. They first make sure that false claims would be punished, but do not offer extensive protection to those who blow the whistle.

Read on the similar act that has existed in US since last century. That is how you are suppose to protect whistleblowers. Not like out half baked bill.

 

[pauldmps]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Nobody is questioning legitimacy of this government. They are questioning what they are doing for the people and against corruption. This government has absolute zero chance of falling prematurely even with this movement. Unless they take moral responsibility and step down or their own elected officials decide to go against their top brass mentality, there is no chance that any of this will destabilize this government.

I agree.

@ blr_p

This time, the UPA has a clear majority in Lok Sabha without the need of external support. You know how Congress played a dirty game last time when when the left parties withdrew support from the Govt. Parties like SP, BSP & JMM will come running like dogs (as Nitin Gadkari said, rightfully) when cash is thrown at them. And you never know, some MLA's from those parties (Amar Singh) might actually act as touts & middlemen to get some of opposition in their side.

And about the effectiveness of Lokpal - It is based on the Ombudsman Law in HongKong which has been highly successful. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Oh i've admitted i've not finished reading it but you've not countered the points i've brought up on the chapters i already have read.

My points raised stand

Anyway, caught devils advocate and Karan was on fire, excellent stuff. Covers pretty much the objections raised here with answers & counter questions and read Karan's rebuttals to what many have been saying in defense of JLP

Pass Bill by Aug 30, time for talks over: Team Anna | Devils advocate | Aug 20, 2011

The game's moved on ppl, now the new demand is pass this bill by month end !

heh, do it or else he fasts to death. So no changes from the JLP camp, its still the same old blackmail & coercion.

Which govt will accept this ? not one.

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Oh i've admitted i've not finished reading it but you've not countered the points i've brought up on the chapters i already have read.

My points raised stand

Anyway, caught devils advocate and Karan was on fire, excellent stuff. Covers pretty much the objections raised here with answers & counter questions and read Karan's rebuttals to what many have been saying in defense of JLP

Pass Bill by Aug 30, time for talks over: Team Anna | Devils advocate | Aug 20, 2011

The game's moved on ppl, now the new demand is pass this bill by month end !

heh, do it or else he fasts to death. So no changes from the JLP camp, its still the same old blackmail & coercion.

Which govt will stand up to this ? not one.

Because you havent raised any valid points.

You talk about this law making lokpal strong enough to dictate terms to the government, it cannot. This bill is limited to issues related to corruption. If you think with that scope, it can dictate its terms to government, then think yourself what it means. It only means that is the level of corruption at the present.

You ask about why it will be disaster? I have already stated why in the same post below. It almost looks like you just go on quoting each and every sentence before reading entire post.

As I said the act you say already exist is full of loopholes where their is one way punishment for whistle-blowers and not enough protection offered. Too many agencies handling too many things. How do you expect a whistle blower to be protected when his name is on the file on a case where its handled by different agencies, many of which are under direct government control. Nothing to prevent victimisation of whistleblower, nothing to punish officers who participate in that.

 

[avi]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Say if bill gets passed, then how many people will be working under it ? and how to make sure they don't go corrupt ?

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

JLP

From the defintions:

“Act of corruption” includes -:
i) anything made punishable under Chapter IX of the Indian Penal Code or under the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988; which would also include any offence committed by an elected member of a house of legislature even in respect of his speech or vote inside the house.

ii) willfully giving any undue benefit to any person or obtaining any benefit from any public servant in violation of any laws or rules,

iii) victimization of a whistleblower or a witness.

iv) repeated violation of citizen’s charter by any public servant.

GOI

"complaint means a complaint made in such a form as may be prescribed alleging that a public servant has committed an offence punishable under the Prevention of Corruption Act, 1988

How do you interpret or what is the stautory interpretation of these two defintions ?

Would you agree that JLP is pretty loosely worded as to be exhaustive whereas GOI is more precisely worded ie narrow in scope ?

Now what are the implications if JLP's definition is selected ?

As I said the act you say already exist is full of loopholes where their is one way punishment for whistle-blowers and not enough protection offered. Too many agencies handling too many things. How do you expect a whistle blower to be protected when his name is on the file on a case where its handled by different agencies, many of which are under direct government control. Nothing to prevent victimisation of whistleblower, nothing to punish officers who participate in that.

Ok, i would need to read that existing whistleblowers act and see where it is lacking.

Otherwise what is needed then is an amendment to the existing whistle blower act to make it safer. On this i agree, essential that whistleblowers be adequately protected. What would be better still is a witness protection program.

So then why define it in this bill in that case ? attempt to override the existing whistleblowers act.

 

[Shripad]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Say if bill gets passed, then how many people will be working under it ? and how to make sure they don't go corrupt ?

Number of people working under it will be worked out after the bill is passed and its form.

As far as the check on the people involved with Lokpal is concerned, the two parties have different suggestions.

The government draft leaves all complaints against the staff to be judged by lokpal himself. Any complain against lokpal himself will be handled by Chief Justice of India.

The Civic body suggest a independent board made up of the judges, retired bureaucrats and civil society members that will look into the allegations against lokpal staff. Also anyone is free to make complain against Lokpal himself with ultimate decision in the matter in the hand of President of India. Kinda similar to any board that governs any company or department. There will need to be a multiple simultaneous failures for this approach to fail so its well taken care off.

 

[avi]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Okay, from my side

Spoiler

Thoughts in every Indian's mind: Anna, Anna, Sex, Anna, Savita Bhabhi, Anna, Cricket, Sex, Girls, Sex, Anna, Anna, Anna, ANNA

Thoughts in Anna's mind: Roti, Sabka fudu khich raha hai, Roti, Bhookh, Sabko bewkook banaunga, Roti, Sab saale paagal hai, Roti, I'M FAMOUS, ROTI, Kissi koi lagta hai koi kaam dhanda nahi hai, Roti, Rakhi Sawant, Roti

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

courtesy - fb friend

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Number of people working under it will be worked out after the bill is passed and its form.

True but as of now

GOI: chairperson + 8 members
JLP: chairperson + 10 members

GOI states chair has to be a CJI, 4 out of the 8 have to be CJ of high courts or SC, the other 4 have to have experience in corruption and come from numerous fields, with no less than 25 years of experience.

JLP states chair must have extensive exeprience in law but does not stipulate a CJI, the other 4 have to have legal experience the judical members same like GOI and the remainder can be from civil society be of good standing. The rules are more relaxed with JLP

As far as the check on the people involved with Lokpal is concerned, the two parties have different suggestions.
The government draft leaves all complaints against the staff to be judged by lokpal himself. Any complain against lokpal himself will be handled by Chief Justice of India.

No,

GOI: any complaint is made to the president who then passed it on to the acting CJI
JLP: an independent commitee is made up to hear the allegations and act on them if necessary, president not required.

lokpal can ever police itself that would be a big no-no. But JLP stipulates...

u) to ensure the integrity of its functionaries and impose punishments of dismissal, removal and reduction in rank against.

how JLP plan to do that isn't clear to me atm.

 

[avi]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

There is another floating in youtube which shows BJP is supporting anna - Anna Hazare - His Ideology - YouTube

and this says he was a crazy guy ! - Anna Hazare - Know more about him - YouTube

how much is TRUE ? or Congress is behind all these ?

 

[kippu]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

if the government bends over back to pass the bill with his demands , i will absolutely lose respect for them .. be strong government