Front loading or top loading washing machine?

[asingh]

Regarding some comments here. My front loader (IFB kg) front gasket developed mold (right at the point where the water is discharged out--those small three holes). Yesterday only I cleaned out the mold. I used to leave the door open for a few hours, post every wash. It is better to use a dry cloth to remove as much water possible from the sealing gasket after each wash.

 

[rdst_1]

Regarding some comments here. My front loader (IFB kg) front gasket developed mold (right at the point where the water is discharged out--those small three holes). Yesterday only I cleaned out the mold. I used to leave the door open for a few hours, post every wash. It is better to use a dry cloth to remove as much water possible from the sealing gasket after each wash.

Yes, that is what was told to us by the Bosch technician who had come to install the machine. So for the last 8 years that we've had the machine, we religiously wipe the gasket dry and then leave the door open for an hour or so.
I am guessing it also matters where the machine is installed. We've always had it in the open, but soon it will be moved to the bathroom. Hope the lower ventilation doesn't take a toll on my old machine.

Has anyone over here changed the rubber feet of their machines. When we had bought this machine, we were told to never use it on a stand. But now Bosch themselves sell WM stands. I am guessing even if I buy a stand, I should change those feet because they are showing their age, but where to source good quality stuff which can last at least 4-5 years.

 

[fastapifastdisks]

Which model# front loader are you using currently ?

being smart and not using a front loader anymore.

 

[asingh]

Yes, that is what was told to us by the Bosch technician who had come to install the machine. So for the last 8 years that we've had the machine, we religiously wipe the gasket dry and then leave the door open for an hour or so.
I am guessing it also matters where the machine is installed. We've always had it in the open, but soon it will be moved to the bathroom. Hope the lower ventilation doesn't take a toll on my old machine.

I wish our installation guy had told us this vs. selling a water softner. They are a useless bunch. Am careful now. The rot was quite bad, and had to use bleach to remove it. You use descaling agents as recommended..?

In lower ventilation am sure the water will dry more slowly in the gasket. But once you wipe it clean (at time of clothes removal) you should be fine. Our machine was outside, and still suffered, with the door open.

Side note: We have a IFB dryer stacked on top. A dryer is a really really great device to use in Indian homes. Clothes dry dusty free, and removes the lint too.!

 

[adder]

Every single manufacture says wipe the door gasket after each cycle be it in the manual or in their youtube channel. I have been doing this since day 1 of 2008. No one told me, nor do I call the installation guys.

The installation guys are worthless. They come with improper tools, dirty hands, hell once for the LG WM, the dealer had called for installation without my consent. By the time I was aware of this. They where already in my house taken the machine out of the box and what did this morons do they rested the washing machine legs on it's own drain pipe.

 

[blr_p]

being smart and not using a front loader anymore.

I mean top loader. What is the model# of the one you are using.

Regarding some comments here. My front loader (IFB kg) front gasket developed mold (right at the point where the water is discharged out--those small three holes). Yesterday only I cleaned out the mold. I used to leave the door open for a few hours, post every wash. It is better to use a dry cloth to remove as much water possible from the sealing gasket after each wash.

You only got the mould you could see. There could be more.

Best way to tackle mould is cholorine bleach. Half a cup of clorox (120ml) put directly in the drum. When i say clorox i mean clorox or closest reliable equivalent of which i know none. Don't use bleaching powder (cut with caustic soda) or toilet bowl bleach which has hydrochloric acid. You want sodium hypochlorite which is diluted to 4% in clorox.

You don't want to put it in the soap dispenser otherwise the clorox residue will come out when washing clothes and bleach things. Putting it directly in the drum avoids this problem.

Regular wash programs use 5 litres of water or thereabouts. LG's Tub clean program uses 15 litres of water. You want a high water level program

Does IFB have an equivalent tub clean program otherwise you will have to use a cottons 60 degrees program. In that case use half the amount of clorox, just a scoop full.

You don't want to use this treatment too often, once a year or every 6 months should be enough. It has a very narrow & specific purpose which is to disinfect.

Boil washes disinfect too but they can't get at mould once its there as well as clorox. They can only make it harder for mould to take hold.

You can run an extra rinse cycle to remove any clorox after. The drum does smell a little of clorox after but i don't bother and not noticed any problems with washing after.

My front loader (IFB kg) front gasket developed mold (right at the point where the water is discharged out--those small three holes).

Cleaning the gasket is the easy bit. Harder is the area between the gasket and the drum. You have pull at it and run a cloth or cotton bud in there. When i looked at mine after a few years it was absolutely filthy. I never knew you had to clean in between that space. YOu only find out when you pull the gasket back. You can see the area i mean in the thumbnail already.

Her gasket is nice and soft, mine is a bit more stiff and requires little more pulling.

Only way you properly clean that is to remove the gasket and well that is all fine and well i'm just not too sure i could put it back on again. There is a retaining wire with a spring that needs a special tool pliers with arms sticking out to separate the spring, extend it so the ring opens more. I don't have that tool and without it the gasket risks being damaged.

So i don't take it out.

So as of today companies that use sealed drum are Bosch/siemens,whirlpool, voltas-beko and many more.
Companies that have removable drum are LG, samsung, Amazon basics, Miele. I would avoid samsung due to spyder failure and Amazon basics due to no spares.

How about Motorola ? sticker on the motor shows whirlpool but you can see nuts around the drum of the model he has lying on its side.

Didn't know Motorola now makes WM's

It has some nifty features. Adding more rinses and reducing default times.

Don't agree with setting water temperature to zero. If you're going to do that then just go with a top loader with no heating. Nor his recommends of liquid detergents.

Low temperature washes and liquid detergents is just a recipe for trouble down the road.

I suppose service is up to the Whirlpool network.

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Price is lower than the Koreans so they've cut corners some where.

 

[rdst_1]

You use descaling agents as recommended..?

No. We weren't recommended any descaling agents. I guess it was because Chandigarh didn't have 'hard' water issues. And later I moved to Himachal and again here, the water is already soft, so never worried about using either a water softener or descaling powders.

 

[asingh]

You only got the mould you could see. There could be more.

Best way to tackle mould is cholorine bleach. Half a cup of clorox (120ml) put directly in the drum. When i say clorox i mean clorox or closest reliable equivalent of which i know none. Don't use bleaching powder (cut with caustic soda) or toilet bowl bleach which has hydrochloric acid. You want sodium hypochlorite which is diluted to 4% in clorox.

You don't want to put it in the soap dispenser otherwise the clorox residue will come out when washing clothes and bleach things. Putting it directly in the drum avoids this problem.

Regular wash programs use 5 litres of water or thereabouts. LG's Tub clean program uses 15 litres of water. You want a high water level program

Does IFB have an equivalent tub clean program otherwise you will have to use a cottons 60 degrees program. In that case use half the amount of clorox, just a scoop full.

You don't want to use this treatment too often, once a year or every 6 months should be enough. It has a very narrow & specific purpose which is to disinfect.

Boil washes disinfect too but they can't get at mould once its there as well as clorox. They can only make it harder for mould to take hold.

You can run an extra rinse cycle to remove any clorox after. The drum does smell a little of clorox after but i don't bother and not noticed any problems with washing after.

Cleaning the gasket is the easy bit. Harder is the area between the gasket and the drum. You have pull at it and run a cloth or cotton bud in there. When i looked at mine after a few years it was absolutely filthy. I never knew you had to clean in between that space. YOu only find out when you pull the gasket back. You can see the area i mean in the thumbnail already.

Her gasket is nice and soft, mine is a bit more stiff and requires little more pulling.

Only way you properly clean that is to remove the gasket and well that is all fine and well i'm just not too sure i could put it back on again. There is a retaining wire with a spring that needs a special tool pliers with arms sticking out to separate the spring, extend it so the ring opens more. I don't have that tool and without it the gasket risks being damaged.

So i don't take it out.

Thanks for the nice reply.

I had used a cloth soaked in RIN Ala Bleach, and placed it for a few minutes inside the gasket. That immediately removed the mold. Then I ran one hot cycle with some more bleach in the drum. I checked the inside part of the gasket, as of now it is mold free. This is the best I could manage with industrial solvents available. I guess.

 

[Kaleen Bhaiya]

So you run a maintenance wash monthly with nothing to dissolve it.

Monthly, no. We use the machine once a week or two so there's rarely any residue or dirt left behind. Did the tub clean yesterday after reading the post here.

How much powder are you using ?
What brand of detergent powder are you using ?

It's a small scoop, should be 30 gms. I first tried with the Ariel demo pack of 200 gms which came with the machine. Had issues with itching, being mindful of the quantity to avoid suds and residue. Then switched to Tide Ultra and used it till October. No itching issues with Tide. My Dad was complaining that clothes were not being washed properly so I decided to give liquid Ariel a try.
Did my own searching, seems liquid and powder have their own use-cases. So I will be getting an Ariel powder and use liquid only for oily, greasy stains.
The price difference baffles me. 1kg tide costs around 160, Ariel costs 260. That's on Amazon. Which is better among the two? The tide I brought in Feb mentioned suitable for both Front and Top, now the same package reads for TL only. Must have changed the packaging
I don't over load either, max 60-70% drum capactiy so that clothes can move around and mix well with the detergent.
Ru 700 for 200 gms is blind rip off!!! I use SCalgo from LG, but given that water is soft and I use powder, liquid detergent in moderation, I decided to use it after a year. I still think white vinegar and washing soda at high temps are the most natural way to go for cleaning instead of relying on these chemicals.

 

[blr_p]

Thanks for the nice reply.

I had used a cloth soaked in RIN Ala Bleach, and placed it for a few minutes inside the gasket. That immediately removed the mold. Then I ran one hot cycle with some more bleach in the drum. I checked the inside part of the gasket, as of now it is mold free. This is the best I could manage with industrial solvents available. I guess.

That's the local equivalent I could not recall.

Its got sodium hypochlorite. You're good. Price works out the same as Clorox so i've never tried it.

I don't like this term 'fabric whitener' because its misleading. Vanish does the same thing too but it used hydrogen peroxide and is colour safe.

You only find the word bleach in the fine print at the back of the bottle. It needs to be more prominent.

Amusing that on amazon they call it 'RIN ala bleach'. Better name if not what it says on the bottle.

What is the shelf life of RIN ? Clorox expires within a year so getting fresh stock is important. The one that bigbasket stocks is a Malyasian import. Usually has about 8 months or more left.

 

[adder]

Do not put bleach in washing machine. Its very corrosive, hell it causes stainless steel to rust.
Pretty sure it will screw up the already crappy spyder . if you do need to already take care of the existing mold in the gasket wipe with bleach moist cloth.

I used to use sodium hypoclorite 5% to sanitize the gates etc and all metals rust if it comes in contact with it.

 

[blr_p]

Depends on the concentration and how long it remains in contact.

1/2 cup is little over 100 ml in a tub clean of 15L works out to 1:150 concentration. Your 4% Hypochlorite is now reduced to 0.3% concentration.

That is quite mild and good enough to go after mould.

Tub clean is about 40 minutes. Two rinses after. Or more if you want.

See attachment for what cole palmer says

Door seal is EPDM Scores B. Presuming any other gaskets in the machine are also EPDM. This is the thing that concerned me as if they rot then you get an internal leak.

Drum & Spider is stainless steel. Don't know the exact grade but food grade 304 & 316 scores A. Anything Aluminium also scores A. Metal should be ok.

Was your gate Cast Iron ? Score D. Guess the enamel paint on the gate was adversely affected by the hypochlorite. Exposing the now vulnerable iron to the elements ?

Injection moulded parts are either ABS or Polycarbonate (No data). Hoses and pipes are either PVC or CPVC. I don't think anything is polypropelene inside.

If there is any nitrile rubber it won't do as well. Again concentration and duration.

What is the harm once every 6 months or yearly ?

I was nervous the shine on the drum would fade or go dull. After a few uses i can't tell if it caused any damage to the drum. Looks fine.

 

[adder]

Depends on the concentration and how long it remains in contact.

1/2 cup is little over 100 ml in a tub clean of 15L works out to 1:150 concentration. Your 4% Hypochlorite is now reduced to 0.3% concentration.

That is quite mild and good enough to go after mould.

Tub clean is about 40 minutes. Two rinses after. Or more if you want.

See attachment for what cole palmer says

Door seal is EPDM Scores B. Presuming any other gaskets in the machine are also EPDM. This is the thing that concerned me as if they rot then you get an internal leak.

Drum & Spider is stainless steel. Don't know the exact grade but food grade 304 & 316 scores A. Anything Aluminium also scores A. Metal should be ok.

Was your gate Cast Iron ? Score D. Guess the enamel paint on the gate was adversely affected by the hypochlorite. Exposing the now vulnerable iron to the elements ?

Injection moulded parts are either ABS or Polycarbonate (No data). Hoses and pipes are either PVC or CPVC. I don't think anything is polypropelene inside.

If there is any nitrile rubber it won't do as well. Again concentration and duration.

What is the harm once every 6 months or yearly ?

I was nervous the shine on the drum would fade or go dull. After a few uses i can't tell if it caused any damage to the drum. Looks fine.

So I use 25 to 40ml of 5% solution mixed with 2 liters of water and that causes corrosion. I had sprayed the gates its MS steel solid square rods. Painted sprayed with 3 coats of car paint since 2 decades. Only started to rust now after this.

I also use the same solution to sanitize the scissors and blades that I use to open packages and that scissor is also stainless steel and it rusted big time as did stainless steel knives.

So I use ethanol or proponal to sanitize all metal things.

Brass, copper also turns greenish blue like door knobs with bleach.

The spider inside is not made of stainless steel. It some kind of alloy.

 

[blr_p]

So I use 25 to 40ml of 5% solution mixed with 2 liters of water and that causes corrosion. I had sprayed the gates its MS steel solid square rods. Painted sprayed with 3 coats of car paint since 2 decades. Only started to rust now after this.

I also use the same solution to sanitize the scissors and blades that I use to open packages and that scissor is also stainless steel and it rusted big time as did stainless steel knives.

The difference is duration the bleach is in contact with the metal.

In your case its indefinite isn't it. It's used to coat the item in the interests of sanitising it. You don't wipe it off. It remains on the item until you use it again and then you will sanitise it again and so on.

In a washing machine, the contact duration is only as long as the wash cycle of the tub clean program. Then it will be washed off with a couple of rinses. When is your next wash ? a day or two later. Another three rinses again.

So duration bleach is in contact with the metal is much shorter compared to using bleach as a sanitiser isn't it.

If you leave metal in contact with bleach for an extended period of time then its the same as salty water. It will corrode with time.

Brass, copper also turns greenish blue like door knobs with bleach.

Same applies here.

The spider inside is not made of stainless steel. It some kind of alloy.

This spider is more prone to failure from hard water and or soap buildup than anything else i think. If its subjected to an alkaline medium like being coated with scale or soap. It gets wet in the wash. More accumulates. Same effect of long duration contact.

This is why i run the tub clean once a month in the interests of removing any soap residue that might be on it. I've not found a faster way to remove soap residue. I don't know if citric acid works better than plain hot water at removing soap residue. Soap is alkaline like scale.

I think a good way would be prolonged tub clean. So run a tub clean cycle. Wait half hour until it heats the water up to 70 degrees. Then pull the plug to simulate a power cut.. Leave it to soak for a couple of hours. Plug it in and set it to tub clean again. It will not drain the water but continue since it senses there is already water. Let it run another half hour. Pull the plug. Let it rest a couple of hours then restart again and let the tub clean go to the end.

That ought to shake off more residue than just one tub clean cycle.

The way to tell if you have soap buildup is to run the tub clean and a few minutes before the wash cycle ends to observe the water with a flashlight. When its close to 00:36 minutes left is when the wash cycle is about to end. So examine when it says 00:40 or forty minutes to go.

How soapy is it when water is still. Are the suds thick and do the suds hold together or do they break up in a few seconds before the drum starts to rotate again. If its the latter then the buildup is less otherwise its more.

Initially I used a full scoop (60gm) of detergent with a full load. Then i noticed this buildup after a couple of years.

So I halved the detergent dose (20gm) and couple of years later noticed the same buildup.

 

[asingh]

What is the shelf life of RIN ? Clorox expires within a year so getting fresh stock is important. The one that bigbasket stocks is a Malyasian import. Usually has about 8 months or more left.

Nothing is mentioned on the bottle I have.

 

[tech.addict]

Any liquid beach solution contains Sodium hydroxide. The Chlorine in the liquid bleach is fairly unstable. A part of it reacts with the organic substance/living micro organism killing it and in turn becoming inert itself. Rest of the Chlorine just evaporates in due course of time. That is why you don't smell chlorine after a certain from any bleaches be it liquid or solid. It is the sodium hydroxide that is present in the liquid bleaches (used to stabilize the solution) that corrodes the metal.

I would suggest using chlorine tablets like Suma tabs (https://www.amazon.in/Suma-Enterprises-5769126-Tab-D4-0-1/dp/B00TX4ZGPS) to avoid this problem. This does not have any Sodium Hydroxide in it> it contains Sodium dichloroisocyanurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_dichloroisocyanurate.

 

[blr_p]

So I use 25 to 40ml of 5% solution mixed with 2 liters of water and that causes corrosion. I had sprayed the gates its MS steel solid square rods. Painted sprayed with 3 coats of car paint since 2 decades. Only started to rust now after this.

I also use the same solution to sanitize the scissors and blades that I use to open packages and that scissor is also stainless steel and it rusted big time as did stainless steel knives.

How long did you keep that mixture in the bottle ?

Mixing bleach with water like this has a shelf life of about ONE day. It breaks down soon into salt and water.

If you made a fresh batch every day then fine. Otherwise you were just spraying salt water on things. Chlorine is gone. No disinfection (!)

Alcohol is a much better solution.

Any liquid beach solution contains Sodium hydroxide. The Chlorine in the liquid bleach is fairly unstable. A part of it reacts with the organic substance/living micro organism killing it and in turn becoming inert itself. Rest of the Chlorine just evaporates in due course of time. That is why you don't smell chlorine after a certain from any bleaches be it liquid or solid. It is the sodium hydroxide that is present in the liquid bleaches (used to stabilize the solution) that corrodes the metal.

I would suggest using chlorine tablets like Suma tabs (https://www.amazon.in/Suma-Enterprises-5769126-Tab-D4-0-1/dp/B00TX4ZGPS) to avoid this problem. This does not have any Sodium Hydroxide in it> it contains Sodium dichloroisocyanurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_dichloroisocyanurate.

Interesting solution for comparable price to clorox

2 tabs in 10 litres of water gives 150 ppm available chlorine

In 15L of water that will be 100 ppm. To sanitise 200 ppm chlorine is required

Use 3 tabs in a tub clean and you will have the equivalent.

Clorox out of the bottle, fresh is 50,000 ppm. Diluted to 1:150 becomes 250 ppm

There's 50 tabs per bottle so you get 17 goes for Rs.320

I'd get just under 10 goes for Rs.150 with 1L Clorox. At just twice a year i'd never get all of them.

Nothing is mentioned on the bottle I have.

Hmm, check on the neck near the cap.

Clorox does not print anything on the label. But there is a cryptic number printed on the neck that one can somewhat decipher a year and month of manufacture.

 

[adder]

How long did you keep that mixture in the bottle ?

Mixing bleach with water like this has a shelf life of about ONE day. It breaks down soon into salt and water.

If you made a fresh batch every day then fine. Otherwise you were just spraying salt water on things. Chlorine is gone. No disinfection (!)

Alcohol is a much better solution.

At the height of pandemic waves, I used to use it up daily. These days it lasts 3 days, since its mostly only used on floor, where the car/scooters come in. Even after 2 days, if the solution falls on clothes it removes the color. I also use RO water for it, the TDS is like 5 or 6.

BBMP during the first and second waves they use to put tablet in portable sprayers for sanitizing.

 

[blr_p]

Monthly, no. We use the machine once a week or two so there's rarely any residue or dirt left behind. Did the tub clean yesterday after reading the post here.

A tub clean once a month with nothing in is a good habit to get into. You can put detergent in there once every three months to give the insides a clean.

It's a small scoop, should be 30 gms. I first tried with the Ariel demo pack of 200 gms which came with the machine. Had issues with itching, being mindful of the quantity to avoid suds and residue.

I have had no problems with Ariel powder. But have preferred Surf Excel Matic powder because of the perfume.

That's a dose for soft water. Dosage depends on water hardness. Have you checked yours ? The way to measure hardness is to get a total hardness kit. You would test hardness every 2 months to get an idea how it changes during the year and adjust dosage accordingly.

A TDS meter isn't accurate because it just measures the conductivity of water. So you could have otherwise soft water but due to presence of other salts will still register a higher TDS than actual.

Then switched to Tide Ultra and used it till October. No itching issues with Tide. My Dad was complaining that clothes were not being washed properly so I decided to give liquid Ariel a try.
Did my own searching, seems liquid and powder have their own use-cases. So I will be getting an Ariel powder and use liquid only for oily, greasy stains.
The price difference baffles me. 1kg tide costs around 160, Ariel costs 260. That's on Amazon. Which is better among the two?

Interesting your Dad noticed an issue with Tide. When i looked it up i was a bit confused with their directions.

1) whenever i see a detergent that is supposed to work with both machines then there is something wrong. Detergents are formulated differently depending on the machine. You will notice that both Ariel & Surf offer specific variants for the corresponding machine whether in powder or liquid. I skipped Ariel also because few years ago they were saying it worked for both machines. They've since offered two vairants.

2) why are they recommending to use three scoops for a top loader ? Other top loader detergents mention just 1 scoop or more if heavily soiled. Difference in quality right there.

If now they have corrected the packaging to say just top loaders, then this was made for top loaders only and probably why your wash performance was not satisfactory.

As to price difference its down to the % of active ingredients in the detergent. The premium detergents like Ariel or Surf will have more than cheaper ones.

Consequently they will have better detergency. Means they clean better. You will get a better idea if you read the following

Consumer Voice : August 2018 : Comparative test of Detergent powders (pdf)

See where tide ranks compared to Surf matic. Tide is P&G's lower end product. Ariel is their premier.

Only top loader powders tested there. I guess we will have to wait for next year for them to put out an update to this report.

They have not tested liquid laundry detergents as yet. How good are they ? Same price

Surf liquid 2L vs Surf powder (2kg)

Liquid says double power but dosage is one cap for given load over one scoop. There is no double power. This ain't no concentrate. I use around 20 ml in a graduated cough syrup cap.

They say better dissolution. Heh yes but the the residue ends up inside your machine if you use too much and wash at low temps.

I used liquids when i was abroad because the ads led me to think they were better. Was using coin operated machines and did not care about the machine.

The tide I brought in Feb mentioned suitable for both Front and Top, now the same package reads for TL only. Must have changed the packaging

The pic is of a twin tub. Dosage is same as the other for TL. But this is for semi automatics not TL. It's a different product and is cheaper.

4kg bags as opposed to 3kg with the other.

I don't see the savings here with Tide if they expect you to use three scoops. How big are Tide's scoops ? Scoop with Ariel & Surf is 60gm/60ml

I don't over load either, max 60-70% drum capactiy so that clothes can move around and mix well with the detergent.
Ru 700 for 200 gms is blind rip off!!! I use SCalgo from LG, but given that water is soft and I use powder, liquid detergent in moderation, I decided to use it after a year. I still think white vinegar and washing soda at high temps are the most natural way to go for cleaning instead of relying on these chemicals.

Just so you understand with the smaller model you have. A full load means a 20 litre bucket just overflowing with clothes dropped in. Not folded and without stuffing them in.

If you want to use vinegar & washing soda. Make sure you use them separately and not together. Why ? because they are enemies. They will neutralise each other.

Acid + Base = Salt and water.

Frequently i see youtubers recommend they be used together. Well, if both counter the other then the result is less of each and the resulting salt is being used as a mild abrasive.

Citric acid is ten times more acidic than vinegar and reacts less adversely (mostly green) with seals than vinegar (unknown for some and some yellow). Good enough for descaling.

I've tried washing soda for drum cleaning but here is a word of caution. I noticed some residue the day after in the machine. Didn't understand why it did not wash out after the tub clean.

If that gets in your clothes in your next wash i promise you will feel itchy. It's got a pH of 11 so about 100 times more alkaline than bicarb or even detergent. It will clean better any dirt that might be in the machine. It will also be harsh on clothes and wear them out sooner.

Did not see much point to it. Just use the same dose of detergent with the tub clean.

There is some sodium carbonate in detergents. The purpose is to act as a water softener. Though i think the better detergents use something else.

 

[Kaleen Bhaiya]

That's a dose for soft water. Dosage depends on water hardness.

I have soft water for sure. I have a hard time removing soap(Dettol)from my body while bathing. I have seen suds forming when I use full scoop of the small one. Looking at the larger scoops provided by Ariel and tide and claiming it to be 60gms when full, I think mine won't be 30gms. I tried filling the 60gms scoop with the small scoop I used and it definitely doesn't fill half of 60gm scoop. Either way, need to give another try next time to see the level of sudding. All those sudding issues was with tide.

2) why are they recommending to use three scoops for a top loader ? Other top loader detergents mention just 1 scoop or more if heavily soiled. Difference in quality right there.

Depends from what perspective you see. If considering from TL, then what you said is correct. If you see from FL, then dosages exceed to achieve the same concentration. efficacy.
Whose misguiding the customers? Company or Amazon? Either ways, I learnt my lesson and not going to cheap out on detergents. Initially, I found it hard to justify that massive jump in price from a regular detergent to a washing machine FL detergent can be more than 100%, unless they are using gold.

If now they have corrected the packaging to say just top loaders, then this was made for top loaders only and probably why your wash performance was not satisfactory.

This was the one I brought which mentioned suitable for TL and FL back when it was available in Feb. Now the images show for TL. I must have been taken for a ride.

See where tide ranks compared to Surf matic. Tide is P&G's lower end product. Ariel is their premier.

I am surprised Surf Matic is on a higher side than Ariel Matic. Most YT videos on laundry liquid detergents give higher preference to Ariel over Surf. But it's subjective. Also, the pdf is on powder, my opinion based on liquids.

They have not tested liquid laundry detergents as yet. How good are they ? Same price

I honestly didn't find much difference as 3 months is less time to determine the wash quality. But from cost wise for liquids, Ariel is costly than Surf. Also surf tends to leave some residue as mentioned in one of YT video so I went for Ariel. It has fragrance, can be overwhelming if used in excess.
Regarding powders and liquids, liquid(225) was cheaper than powder(250). I got it from local store since there were many reviews on Amazon mentioning liquids being diluted and it formed foam when shaken. Liquids don't form foam as they are highly viscous.
Liquids will help to maintain colour of the clothes as they don't have bleach like in detergents. Coloured clothes will fade over time with detergent as it dulls the dye.

How big are Tide's scoops ? Scoop with Ariel & Surf is 60gm/60ml

Same for both.

Liquid says double power but dosage is one cap for given load over one scoop. There is no double power. This ain't no concentrate. I use around 20 ml in a graduated cough syrup cap.

They say better dissolution. Heh yes but the the residue ends up inside your machine if you use too much and wash at low temps.

This is highly misleading. There can't be binary recommendations. Dosage depends on many factors.. water quality, number of clothes, drum capacity etc. A 60 ml dosage for a 8-9kg full load would be sufficient, but the same for a full load for 6kg drum is overuse. You not only damage the environment, waste water to remove excess soap, but also the machine. I think companies are playing safe as you mentioned but with time one should get an idea what is correct dosage.
I think companies are getting greedy by asking customers to use excess detergents. Ariel earlier used to have marking on dosage cup which serves as a reference based on load. Now its plain 60ml full cup. And though it says 60ml, I found that it does exceed by a certain amount.

Just so you understand with the smaller model you have. A full load means a 20 litre bucket just overflowing with clothes dropped in. Not folded and without stuffing them in.

Sorry. I didn't understand this.

If you want to use vinegar & washing soda. Make sure you use them separately and not together.

I Use a small paste of soda and water to clean the gasket and the lining between gasket and drum, then wipe it off with a rag. Then fill the drum with vinegar and then tub clean hot water to remove any remaining soda. Although I don't know if I should add vinegar directly to drum or to dispenser tray. There might be some detergent stuck along the dispenser path which needs to be cleaned but I fear it might damage the internals so I refrained.

@DrkLord have you decided on the machine as of yet? Hope this extra info helps you in same way or the other.